forum Your Personal Venting Space 3: Tokyo Drift

Started June 28, 2020 by @The-N-U-T-Cracker

tune

^^^
I would never seriously tell anyone to shut up if I cared about them. No one who I deeply care about has ever told me to shut up.
Plus, the "I'm not like that" defense is very invalidating to experiences that a lot of people have, and also maybe if it's not about you, you don't have to say "not all men."
Because unfortunately, the way cishet men are socialized, we're going to see shit like that more often than not. Even if there are exceptions.
I'm not discriminating in who I make my friends, but by pure coincidence, none of those closest to me are cishet men (in other words, I didn't learn they weren't straight until we were closer). Even those cishet men I do consider my friends have at some point or another made uncomfy comments or something that completely pushed me away from wanting any deeper of a relationship. That is the experience of a lot of people. And we are allowed to generalize when we literally have not found exceptions.

Also I just want to point out, I'm pretty sure everyone here who was saying that they were told to shut up a lot by men were girls or afab people. These people are told to shut up way more than men are told to shut up. And they're told so by men. That's not a coincidence. Maybe to avoid something like this in the future, and before you say "well this doesn't happen to me", look at who is saying it, and look at the patterns and similarities between them. Because saying "this doesn't happen to me/this doesn't bother me" really just feels like another way of saying shut up, whether that was intended or not

So Dom, as much as I love you, you’re fantastic, you simply cannot understand.

Maybe you’re right.

I would never seriously tell anyone to shut up if I cared about them. No one who I deeply care about has ever told me to shut up.

That’s cool. That’s fabulous actually. But extremely surprising to me.

Plus, the "I'm not like that" defense is very invalidating to experiences that a lot of people have, and also maybe if it's not about you, you don't have to say "not all men."

True. But I am used to religious people being bashed. It… saying gets on my nerves is so… frick. words. Well. My peeps are murdered every day and so I get a tad defensive. I feel like y’all could relate to that.

Because unfortunately, the way cishet men are socialized, we're going to see shit like that more often than not. Even if there are exceptions.

sigh You’re right. You’re right. Tbh that’s why most of my friends are girls. Good dudes can be difficult to find sometimes. I blame society.

Because saying "this doesn't happen to me/this doesn't bother me" really just feels like another way of saying shut up, whether that was intended or not

Point taken.

As I said prior, these men who told me to shut up I do/did have a close relationship with. It genuinely upset and hurt me to the point where I still remember it or think about it to this day. When I tell someone that, followed with “I hate being told to shut up” you should notice that.

Also let’s not even MENTION that you’re in the group of men I’m talking about and you have the audacity to tell me “not all men”

It’s not “maybe you’re right, Emi.” It’s “you ARE right.”

I told you to shut up? I am so sorry.

No, you didn’t, but you’re under the group of “cishet men who don’t deserve to comment on women’s emotions”

It's not like a joking "pfft shut up" either, where neither party is taking it seriously. You know, where everyone's just kinda messing around and having a good time? Stuff like what we're talking about is meant to be dismissive and essentially say "I don't care about what's bothering you. I'm above it."

Aight.

OMG yes cloudy

And with that dismissive tone of “I actively do not like what you’re saying to me, it needs to stop right now”

just you people get it

it hurts a lot. and whenever I tell people to shut up I ALWAYS always feel bad

Dom, I used to be a VERY devout Christian and I firmly believe the idea that Christians are super oppressed is something they teach you from a young age so you can justify (often harmful) beliefs that others disagree with. (I'm way more hated as an agnostic than I was as a Christian, almost positive. Even though I'm a much kinder person now.) No one here is picking at religious people because they believe in the Bible or god or heaven. They're saying that a lot of religious people abide by harmful beliefs and are subject to harmful socialization, especially cishet men.
Fellow Christians may be oppressed in other parts of the world, but not the people we're talking about. Not American, Cishet, Christian men. In fact, they get more say in everything than the rest of us do and are a lot more likely to commit violence against us than we atheist/agnostic/gays/afab/etc people are against them.
By not admitting that there are issues with the culture of many people of your religion when it comes to treating others correctly (especially when it's part of the culture, not ingrained in religion itself), you are only defending those who are doing wrong.

^^

just all of that, thank you 😍😍😍

Shout out to my mom yesterday, who yelled at me because I held open a door for her.

Like jeez, and you wonder why I never help?

Dom, I used to be a VERY devout Christian and I firmly believe the idea that Christians are super oppressed is something they teach you from a young age so you can justify (often harmful) beliefs that others disagree with.

Let me say that such things were never taught me in the way you say (completely aware of the irony).

(I'm way more hated as an agnostic than I was as a Christian, almost positive. Even though I'm a much kinder person now.)

By your church, fam etc?

No one here is picking at religious people because they believe in the Bible or god or heaven. They're saying that a lot of religious people abide by harmful beliefs and are subject to harmful socialization, especially cishet men.
Fellow Christians may be oppressed in other parts of the world, but not the people we're talking about. Not American, Cishet, Christian men.

American persecution which isn’t nearly as bad as some other places. But things aren’t all well. Priests get shut down bc of hate speech laws for talking about their laws. A marine was discharged bc he posted a Bible verse. A teacher was fired from praying for a sick student. And then of course there are the groups in America that occasionally shoot up a church or burn it down. I genuinely believe things are going to get worse for Christians in America based on what I’ve seen. I’m lowkey planning to leave the country if it does happen. (Croatia is v nice.) What I’m saying is rumors of oppression have some stuff to them.

In fact, they get more say in everything than the rest of us do and are a lot more likely to commit violence against us than we atheist/agnostic/gays/afab/etc people are against them.

See, I don’t think so. (I do live in a blue state though so there’s that.) But Christians have lost most of their cultural power (from what I can see). The gays won. The sexual revolution people won. Frickin Won’t bake for gays got his life messed up. People consider our beliefs as well as the majority of Christianity to be hateful and bigots.

By not admitting that there are issues with the culture of many people of your religion when it comes to treating others correctly (especially when it's part of the culture, not ingrained in religion itself), you are only defending those who are doing wrong.

Food for thought.

Very well put Bec

Also uhh gotta vent about something, tw for alcoholism and car crash(dw I wasn't the one in the crash)

Dom literally what the fuck

did you READ what you wrote

ok so let’s go over this comprehensively so I can tell you exactly how wrong you are.

completely aware of the irony

Then why didn’t you stop?????? There’s obviously ethos in Bec’s statement and you needed to take heed of like, what is actually going on in America, such as religious trauma.

———

Before I continue I would like to state that I do not give a FUCK about religion. I am adamantly atheist and a Homosexual (tm). Forgive me if I’m… wrong.

Priests get shut down bc of hate speech laws for talking about their laws. A marine was discharged bc he posted a Bible verse. A teacher was fired from praying for a sick student. And then of course there are the groups in America that occasionally shoot up a church or burn it down

I’d like to take this apart. All of these things point to one thing, yes? The teaching of the modern Bible, which insights hatred against LGBTQ+ (homophobia), POC (racism), Immigrants (xenophobia), anger against other churches and religions in the state, and a general lack of belief in science. The priest (which I’ve never heard of, please give a name), must have been spreading propaganda of one of the horrible offenses above that I just listed. Are you homophobic, racist or xenophobic, Dom? Well the teachings of the Bible and certain priests are.

(also there’s literally a federal law somewhere that states that you cannot hold prayer in school. I’m almost POSITIVE that the teacher made the class do it too)

Where’s the proof? Where are these cases? Why are you bringing them up?

I genuinely believe things are going to get worse for Christians in America based on what I’ve seen.

ooooooh. You want a reason to feel oppressed too.

Trust me. Christianity in the States will NEVER be worse than this. It’s only getting worse because minority groups are getting sick of Christianity’s shit. It’s your group’s fault. Not anyone’s fault but your own.

But Christians have lost most of their cultural power (from what I can see). The gays won. The sexual revolution people won.

this HAS TO BE SATIRE

ARE YOU READING THIS???????? oh my god it’s so funny

oh no!!!! scary gays are gonna poison the water and make our kids love who they want to love!!!!!!!!!!! and feel what they want to feel!!!!!!!!

Like literally

take time to reread some of your shit and relate it back to the handy list I made for you up above and think, “Should I post this to a group of people who literally hate me right now?”

hateful and bigots.

:)))))

it’s because this is looking a whole lot like bigotry and hatefulness

Idk if anyone else read this and was like, “What the hell?” but

I did

Emu out ✌🏻

^^^^^^^^^^

Also I would like to point out that most church shootings I'm aware of were racially motivated and not religiously motivated. So there's that.

I’d like to take this apart. All of these things point to one thing, yes? The teaching of the modern Bible, which insights hatred against LGBTQ+ (homophobia), POC (racism), Immigrants (xenophobia), anger against other churches and religions in the state, and a general lack of belief in science. The priest (which I’ve never heard of, please give a name), must have been spreading propaganda of one of the horrible offenses above that I just listed. Are you homophobic, racist or xenophobic, Dom? Well the teachings of the Bible and certain priests are.

Easy to see where you get homophobic. But why racist and xenophobic?

(also there’s literally a federal law somewhere that states that you cannot hold prayer in school. I’m almost POSITIVE that the teacher made the class do it too)

Incidentally I support that law.

Where’s the proof? Where are these cases? Why are you bringing them up?

To attempt to keep my case from being laughed to scorn.

I genuinely believe things are going to get worse for Christians in America based on what I’ve seen.

ooooooh. You want a reason to feel oppressed too.

Not particularly.

Trust me. Christianity in the States will NEVER be worse than this. It’s only getting worse because minority groups are getting sick of Christianity’s shit. It’s your group’s fault. Not anyone’s fault but your own.

Of course you would think that. Especially with that “if they get it it’s their own fault” attitude.

But Christians have lost most of their cultural power (from what I can see). The gays won. The sexual revolution people won.

this HAS TO BE SATIRE

ARE YOU READING THIS???????? oh my god it’s so funny

oh no!!!! scary gays are gonna poison the water and make our kids love who they want to love!!!!!!!!!!! and feel what they want to feel!!!!!!!!

Took a lot from a simple statement didn’t you.

take time to reread some of your shit and relate it back to the handy list I made for you up above and think, “Should I post this to a group of people who literally hate me right now?”

Been hated here before. Knew it would happen again. I don’t care that much tbh. I still like y’all.

it’s because this is looking a whole lot like bigotry and hatefulness

Bruh. Do I hate you? Bc that seems like an easy answer. Do I hate gays? No. Duh. Have I ever raged about what a sin it was? Have I cut you off or rejected you? Have I tried to convert you? Have I been a prick when y’all talk about your SOs and how freaking gay you are? All I do is make my stance known, bc I would hate for you to have to learn later and feel like betrayed or something, as well as bringing it up when it makes sense to the conversation.

Also I would like to point out that most church shootings I'm aware of were racially motivated and not religiously motivated. So there's that.

Interesting. It really is surprising how many Orthodox priests are attacked as Muslims even though they wear big crosses and stuff.

You didn’t try to oppose or disengage any of my statements with actual thought or points/commentary.

To be noted I still like you too, Dom; however a lot of things you say are deeply troubling and not backed up whatsoever.

Okay I'm gonna make an executive decision and say if we want to take this conversation any further – take it to the Rudeness chat. If not, cool!