Making fun of cishet white men isn't discriminatory. Excluding cishet white men from a queer space isn't discriminatory, just like excluding satanists from a Christian group isn't discriminatory.
I mean, I disagree, but we’re still in the middle of that.
Making fun of people is not discriminatory. We can at least agree on that, right? If I make fun of my brother for being a redhead, it's not discriminatory, it's just a bit mean lmao, and it's the same thing as the other things I've been saying. Making fun of people for something they can't help does not equal discrimination, but it is a little bit mean. That's all
Well I agree with you when we use the more modern form of the word Discrimination. I just disagree with the way people use the word based on it’s Latin root.
because they think that less cishet white men in power/control/spaces = less rights for them, when it doesn't
Why do you think that? Granted, there is definitely at least some malevolent force out there. But why do think it’s a consciousness in majority. I will concede that as a woman you will have a perspective based off of things you’ve seen and I haven’t which is valid.
I think it's more of a subconscious thing? Where they seem to think that if they aren't in control and making decisions, they get less power. And it's not exactly a conscious decision on their part, definitely, but more of a subconscious thing where they think their voices are being silenced because they are so used to only seeing straight white men making the decisions that seeing more minorities in places of power feels wrong. Does that make any sense?
That honestly sounds a lot more like unfounded paranoia than real.
This is the stuff I mean, Ice. I’m not trying to say heterophobia exist or something. I’m saying some cultures are pushing some Not Okay stuff.
Yeah, and I do get that. I just also think that maybe don't make too big a deal out of it? Because straight white people aren't in danger of any rights being taken away, but I, as a young queer woman, am in danger of losing so many protections because of Trump and because of other conservative men that are in positions of leadership throughout our country
It always starts small. For they gays, things are really looking up imo. I’m not concerned about them. They are winning the culture war.
For the cis white gays, maybe. Trans people are still losing though. Trump stripped away a lot of Trans protections, and also took away their ability to join the military. Also for women, we are still fighting a battle for birth control and our right to choose. Irregardless of your standpoint on abortion (which I realize is a no-no topic so I'm not gonna really talk about it) my right to have access to birth control is not something that should be up for debate. I should be able to be on birth control if I want or need to be, and not have to wonder if some man is going to sign away that right because he thinks it doesn't matter, because he thinks it isn't necessary or wanted or needed. because "if you don't want a baby, don't have sex", and then he expects every woman he meets to cater to his sexual desires and impulses. Yes, I'm generalizing, but it is also a very real thing for me, that I am expected to cater to the male gaze and male desires. That if I am attractive, I'm attractive for a man. That if I dress up, I'm dressing up to attract the male gaze. Am I making sense to you? It may "always start small". But it isn't a fight that needs to be fought right now, and may never need to be fought, whereas the fight of the LGBTQ community for equal protection and rights is not over, and women's fight for birth control and right to choice is not over, not by a long shot. Again, does this make sense? (I'm not asking to be a bitch, I'm asking because sometimes my thought process doesn't translate well into text, and I want to make sure you're following what I'm saying)
If you're an ally and you get mad at people saying "I hate straight people" or "I hate white people", you aren't an ally, you're a self-absorbed dick with a massive savior complex and your head up your ass :)
Holy shit. How can you not see what a racist statement that it.
Um. What.
If you're an "ally" to communities of color and you get mad when they express their anger at systemic racism by saying "I hate white people", you aren't an ally to communities of color. I don't know if you're saying I'm the one being racist or the statement "I hate white people" is racist, but neither are true and we're not even gonna talk about how you'd also have to include heterophobia in with that "racism" which you didn't so
Making fun of cishet white men isn't discriminatory. Excluding cishet white men from a queer space isn't discriminatory, just like excluding satanists from a Christian group isn't discriminatory.
I mean, I disagree, but we’re still in the middle of that.
Making fun of people is not discriminatory. We can at least agree on that, right? If I make fun of my brother for being a redhead, it's not discriminatory, it's just a bit mean lmao, and it's the same thing as the other things I've been saying. Making fun of people for something they can't help does not equal discrimination, but it is a little bit mean. That's all
Well I agree with you when we use the more modern form of the word Discrimination. I just disagree with the way people use the word based on it’s Latin root.
I don't quite follow what you mean?
because they think that less cishet white men in power/control/spaces = less rights for them, when it doesn't
Why do you think that? Granted, there is definitely at least some malevolent force out there. But why do think it’s a consciousness in majority. I will concede that as a woman you will have a perspective based off of things you’ve seen and I haven’t which is valid.
I think it's more of a subconscious thing? Where they seem to think that if they aren't in control and making decisions, they get less power. And it's not exactly a conscious decision on their part, definitely, but more of a subconscious thing where they think their voices are being silenced because they are so used to only seeing straight white men making the decisions that seeing more minorities in places of power feels wrong. Does that make any sense?
That honestly sounds a lot more like unfounded paranoia than real.
Hnng big part of the problem is that I can't always translate what I mean very well, so I don't know how to phrase this so that you understand what I'm saying
this is all i'm gonna say: words are not always their roots. they mean what they currently mean
If you're an ally and you get mad at people saying "I hate straight people" or "I hate white people", you aren't an ally, you're a self-absorbed dick with a massive savior complex and your head up your ass :)
Holy shit. How can you not see what a racist statement that it.
Um. What.
If you're an "ally" to communities of color and you get mad when they express their anger at systemic racism by saying "I hate white people", you aren't an ally to communities of color. I don't know if you're saying I'm the one being racist or the statement "I hate white people" is racist, but neither are true and we're not even gonna talk about how you'd also have to include heterophobia in with that "racism" which you didn't so
Ah. I see. I thought it was Gay Ally, changing the statement. Perhaps I overreacted. But racism towards white people is a lot more culturally acceptable so I’m on my guard. And the statement. White people are an odd bunch, but I like them.
I didn’t think it was as important.
I think saying I hate White People(tm) is fine, like when people express their anger at the systematic racism present in our country. But actually saying I hate white people as a as a people is a racist statement no matter who you are. Malcolm X used to hate white people because he'd only had bad experiences with them. However, his resentment towards well meaning white allies didn't do anything for Black liberation. He realized, during his Hajj, that there is a certain Oneness to mankind that needed to be recognized, especially by himself. He realized Black and white communities needed to reconcile themselves, and you couldn't do that without white people involved.
Good activists don't hate, good activists critique and reconcile.
If you're an ally and you get mad at people saying "I hate straight people" or "I hate white people", you aren't an ally, you're a self-absorbed dick with a massive savior complex and your head up your ass :)
Holy shit. How can you not see what a racist statement that it.
Um. What.
If you're an "ally" to communities of color and you get mad when they express their anger at systemic racism by saying "I hate white people", you aren't an ally to communities of color. I don't know if you're saying I'm the one being racist or the statement "I hate white people" is racist, but neither are true and we're not even gonna talk about how you'd also have to include heterophobia in with that "racism" which you didn't so
Ah. I see. I thought it was Gay Ally, changing the statement. Perhaps I overreacted. But racism towards white people is a lot more culturally acceptable so I’m on my guard. And the statement. White people are an odd bunch, but I like them.
I didn’t think it was as important.
Well if you get mad at people saying "I hate white people" you're still a dick regardless but I'm glad you get what I mean ig
My opinion on the discrimination thing is that you have to have a good reason if you’re gonna say “no __ allowed”
And why should your opinion be forced on people?
Did I say that?
Well do you agree with me that a store owner say, should be allowed to block literally anyone, for any dumb reason?
No
But once again, did I not have a good reason for my opinion?
Discrimination against minority groups is illegal. That’s the same idea that my opinion had.
It always starts small. For they gays, things are really looking up imo. I’m not concerned about them. They are winning the culture war.
For the cis white gays, maybe. Trans people are still losing though. Trump stripped away a lot of Trans protections, and also took away their ability to join the military. Also for women, we are still fighting a battle for birth control and our right to choose. Irregardless of your standpoint on abortion (which I realize is a no-no topic so I'm not gonna really talk about it) my right to have access to birth control is not something that should be up for debate. I should be able to be on birth control if I want or need to be, and not have to wonder if some man is going to sign away that right because he thinks it doesn't matter, because he thinks it isn't necessary or wanted or needed. because "if you don't want a baby, don't have sex", and then he expects every woman he meets to cater to his sexual desires and impulses. Yes, I'm generalizing, but it is also a very real thing for me, that I am expected to cater to the male gaze and male desires. That if I am attractive, I'm attractive for a man. That if I dress up, I'm dressing up to attract the male gaze. Am I making sense to you? It may "always start small". But it isn't a fight that needs to be fought right now, and may never need to be fought, whereas the fight of the LGBTQ community for equal protection and rights is not over, and women's fight for birth control and right to choice is not over, not by a long shot. Again, does this make sense? (I'm not asking to be a bitch, I'm asking because sometimes my thought process doesn't translate well into text, and I want to make sure you're following what I'm saying)
I understand what you mean. I still think the gays are only going to be more accepted though. But I definitely get what you’re saying. As for the catering to a man bit. Are you really though? You have your own life, even if it might be twisted for the sight of someone else. Unfortunately, I think the grip of sexism is only growing stronger, especially with the porn culture/sexual entitlement we have here.
What do you mean the fight for birth control. Who’s stopping you. It was made legal ages ago.
As for abortion. I don’t think anyone should have it, but I agree that the fight is still ongoing.
Making fun of cishet white men isn't discriminatory. Excluding cishet white men from a queer space isn't discriminatory, just like excluding satanists from a Christian group isn't discriminatory.
I mean, I disagree, but we’re still in the middle of that.
Making fun of people is not discriminatory. We can at least agree on that, right? If I make fun of my brother for being a redhead, it's not discriminatory, it's just a bit mean lmao, and it's the same thing as the other things I've been saying. Making fun of people for something they can't help does not equal discrimination, but it is a little bit mean. That's all
Well I agree with you when we use the more modern form of the word Discrimination. I just disagree with the way people use the word based on it’s Latin root.
I don't quite follow what you mean?
Basically I agree with you.
My opinion on the discrimination thing is that you have to have a good reason if you’re gonna say “no __ allowed”
And why should your opinion be forced on people?
Did I say that?
Well do you agree with me that a store owner say, should be allowed to block literally anyone, for any dumb reason?
No
But once again, did I not have a good reason for my opinion?
Did you have a good reason?
Discrimination against minority groups is illegal. That’s the same idea that my opinion had.
Who cares about laws. They echo morality or don’t. Good laws come from morality. Morality doesn’t come from laws.
It always starts small. For they gays, things are really looking up imo. I’m not concerned about them. They are winning the culture war.
For the cis white gays, maybe. Trans people are still losing though. Trump stripped away a lot of Trans protections, and also took away their ability to join the military. Also for women, we are still fighting a battle for birth control and our right to choose. Irregardless of your standpoint on abortion (which I realize is a no-no topic so I'm not gonna really talk about it) my right to have access to birth control is not something that should be up for debate. I should be able to be on birth control if I want or need to be, and not have to wonder if some man is going to sign away that right because he thinks it doesn't matter, because he thinks it isn't necessary or wanted or needed. because "if you don't want a baby, don't have sex", and then he expects every woman he meets to cater to his sexual desires and impulses. Yes, I'm generalizing, but it is also a very real thing for me, that I am expected to cater to the male gaze and male desires. That if I am attractive, I'm attractive for a man. That if I dress up, I'm dressing up to attract the male gaze. Am I making sense to you? It may "always start small". But it isn't a fight that needs to be fought right now, and may never need to be fought, whereas the fight of the LGBTQ community for equal protection and rights is not over, and women's fight for birth control and right to choice is not over, not by a long shot. Again, does this make sense? (I'm not asking to be a bitch, I'm asking because sometimes my thought process doesn't translate well into text, and I want to make sure you're following what I'm saying)
I understand what you mean. I still think the gays are only going to be more accepted though. But I definitely get what you’re saying. As for the catering to a man bit. Are you really though? You have your own life, even if it might be twisted for the sight of someone else. Unfortunately, I think the grip of sexism is only growing stronger, especially with the porn culture/sexual entitlement we have here.
What do you mean the fight for birth control. Who’s stopping you. It was made legal ages ago.
As for abortion. I don’t think anyone should have it, but I agree that the fight is still ongoing.
Acceptance is definitely getting better, yes. I am not catering, no, what I'm saying is that that's what it is seen as. I cannot be attractive just to be attractive, the insinuation is always that you must be attractive to men. Which is why so many lesbian women get told "but you're too pretty to be a lesbian" or "you just haven't met the right guy yet". The insinuation is that if they're attractive to men, they must be attracted to men. Do you see that?
It's still so hard to get though. And you have to justify it. I can't just go to my doctor and say "I want birth control" because a lot of the time, you have to have a reason, and it has to be a "better" reason than just "I don't want to get pregnant".
I'm not fighting you on this, Dom. I am just not up to that
I’m just gonna
Also discrimination is not just “I’m not going to let you do this thing.”
The word you’re looking for is exclusion Dom
And I think exclusion is sometimes moral and sometimes not. And that any man should be able to choose to exclude who he will. And let God judge him. And the people by choosing to go or not go there.
As for the catering to a man bit. Are you really though? You have your own life, even if it might be twisted for the sight of someone else. Unfortunately, I think the grip of sexism is only growing stronger, especially with the porn culture/sexual entitlement we have here.
We either are or we're in the worthless category*. Our "own life" doesn't mean shit when we have to survive in a system for men by men. There's not a win for any of us, especially when men see everything we do as for them. And there's some dissonance between what seems to be you saying "fuck what men think you can live your life without catering to them" and also saying that sexism and men viewing women as objects are getting stronger
*Have you seen the "women are put into two categories: worthless and fuckable. The solution to this is not to expand the definition of fuckable" thing, I think it's a tik tok? Because that's what I'm trying to reference here and it's just out of left field if you haven't seen it
I’m just gonna
Also discrimination is not just “I’m not going to let you do this thing.”
The word you’re looking for is exclusion Dom
And I think exclusion is sometimes moral and sometimes not. And that any man should be able to choose to exclude who he will. And let God judge him. And the people by choosing to go or not go there.
Plus, from what I understand, Trump made it easier for companies to opt out of the requirement to provide birth control on their employees' insurance. So in some cases it's not an option because it's so expensive without insurance.
As for the catering to a man bit. Are you really though? You have your own life, even if it might be twisted for the sight of someone else. Unfortunately, I think the grip of sexism is only growing stronger, especially with the porn culture/sexual entitlement we have here.
We either are or we're in the worthless category*. Our "own life" doesn't mean shit when we have to survive in a system for men by men. There's not a win for any of us, especially when men see everything we do as for them. And there's some dissonance between what seems to be you saying "fuck what men think you can live your life without catering to them" and also saying that sexism and men viewing women as objects are getting stronger
*Have you seen the "women are put into two categories: worthless and fuckable. The solution to this is not to expand the definition of fuckable" thing, I think it's a tik tok? Because that's what I'm trying to reference here and it's just out of left field if you haven't seen it
I see you’re life really controlled that much? Sounds horrid.
I’ve seen the thing, yeah.
Plus, from what I understand, Trump made it easier for companies to opt out of the requirement to provide birth control on their employees' insurance. So in some cases it's not an option because it's so expensive without insurance.
Would you force a Jew or Muslim to provide pork dinners? Same dealio.
Plus, from what I understand, Trump made it easier for companies to opt out of the requirement to provide birth control on their employees' insurance. So in some cases it's not an option because it's so expensive without insurance.
Would you force a Jew or Muslim to provide pork dinners? Same dealio.
No. No, it is not the same deal at all, Dom. It is absolutely not the same thing
Plus, from what I understand, Trump made it easier for companies to opt out of the requirement to provide birth control on their employees' insurance. So in some cases it's not an option because it's so expensive without insurance.
Would you force a Jew or Muslim to provide pork dinners? Same dealio.
okay, so is a perfectly healthy CEO not required to provide health insurance to a diabetic employee?
