forum Let's talk about the most controversial shit

Started February 11, 2019 by @SaltyLasagna

tune

Does it bug you at all that you could only be free to do whatever you felt like, without worrying about people finding a way to use it against you later if you were in your own house?

Not really?
If something's that private, maybe it should stay in the confines of your house.

My house is my happy safe place/hording cave, it's the only place were I would do something along those lines.

I'm just suspicious of the gov having video of me creeps me out. Plus I am a religious dude so I think I'm more likely to be legally attacked because I don't think the right things.

IMO some cameras in public spots/businesses is necessary to catch crime (especially speeding and shop robbery, and if the police are looking for someone like a suspected criminal or a missing person they can post their last known location for the public to identify). But the cameras shouldn't be privatised and shouldn't be disguised (like this camera on the bottom left corner). In the UK we get surveillance cameras in streetlights, for instance. And most of the 1.85 million cameras we have here are run by private companies (The UK is huge on general surveillance, even more so than the US and the rest of Europe, though there are laws on how to deal with CCTV footage).

Besides, people already really have their own cameras (recording stuff on their phone, cameras on their house and dashcams) so getting rid of CCTV cameras wouldn't get rid of public surveillance. Go on any social media and there's plenty of secretly recorded footage of people posted online without their consent.
There are some other ways surveillance can be done as well, like on the Internet or checking your credit card history.

I support some traffic cameras and any in a private business.
The real turning point would be, Is the crime rate sufficiently lower in the UK than in the States. If the answer was yes I might change my position.

in the Democratic Party, the minority who are radical socialist’s that think our country is evil and should be destroyed have the loudest voices as if they are the majority

That's what happens with everything these days. The majority of people on this planet have mostly happy lives, yet all you hear is the stories from those who don't. More good things happen on this earth than bad, yet all the news/internet/media tells you is the planet's going to die because all humans are terrible. More happy moments happen across this planet than we think, yet no one talks about it. People like to push bad things out of proportion, and I'm pretty sick of it.

Not everyone on the planet is evil, simple as that. Not all art majors end up unemployed, not all political opinions involve slaughtering half the country, not all religious people want to kill atheists, not all straight people are out to kill gays, and most importantly: NOT EVERY HUMAN TO WALK THIS PLANET IS A FREAKING PSYCHOPATH

Negativity always has the loudest voice, and I may never be able to understand why.

I'm going to be extremely blunt and maybe a bit rude here, just a warning

If you truly believe that the majority of people on this Earth live good, happy, lives, then I'm sorry but you're delusional and very, very sheltered. I've seen too many homeless people begging for money, too many drug addicts digging through the fucking trash in the middle of the night, too many sick people, too many dying people, too many people with super fucked up lives to believe that this is a safe and happy world.
Anybody who knows what the real world is like would agree.

The real turning point would be, Is the crime rate sufficiently lower in the UK than in the States. If the answer was yes I might change my position.

Ok some things to bear in mind first are:

• US/UK have different definitions of violent crime (E.g. Only forced rape is a violent crime in US, while all forms of sexual assault are considered violent in UK)
• US has greater population than UK (The US has more security cameras overall as well. But we can categorise crime rates per 100 000 people to get a reliable figure for either country)
• US/UK have certain differing laws (UK has v. strict gun control, US doesn't etc.)

There have been quite a lot of recent claims that the UK is a 'dangerous' place to visit, but overall, crime rates are actually lower than in the US.
Again, people have mentioned the rising knife crime in London but this is in the capital which does not represent the whole of the country. London's murder rate has recently overtaken New York's modern murder rate but it's still nowhere near New York's '90s levels of 2000 deaths a year ). Even further, London's murder rate is still lower than the US' 50 largest cities. Additionally, the US as a whole actually has higher rates of knife crime than in the UK.

Rates of violent crime are lower overall in the UK than the US, when one takes into account the bias in reporting and defining it, and applies the rates to per 100 000 people. At face value, violent crime rates appear to be higher in the UK than US but the UK has a broader definition of such. Not to mention that the US also under reports more violent crime than the UK.
(TL:DR for linked article that includes the mathematical process: You are more likely to be robbed or knifed in the UK, but you are more likely to be burgled, murdered, shot dead, raped as a woman, suffer aggravated assault, or have your vehicle stolen in the US).

in the Democratic Party, the minority who are radical socialist’s that think our country is evil and should be destroyed have the loudest voices as if they are the majority

That's what happens with everything these days. The majority of people on this planet have mostly happy lives, yet all you hear is the stories from those who don't. More good things happen on this earth than bad, yet all the news/internet/media tells you is the planet's going to die because all humans are terrible. More happy moments happen across this planet than we think, yet no one talks about it. People like to push bad things out of proportion, and I'm pretty sick of it.

Not everyone on the planet is evil, simple as that. Not all art majors end up unemployed, not all political opinions involve slaughtering half the country, not all religious people want to kill atheists, not all straight people are out to kill gays, and most importantly: NOT EVERY HUMAN TO WALK THIS PLANET IS A FREAKING PSYCHOPATH

Negativity always has the loudest voice, and I may never be able to understand why.

I'm going to be extremely blunt and maybe a bit rude here, just a warning

If you truly believe that the majority of people on this Earth live good, happy, lives, then I'm sorry but you're delusional and very, very sheltered. I've seen too many homeless people begging for money, too many drug addicts digging through the fucking trash in the middle of the night, too many sick people, too many dying people, too many people with super fucked up lives to believe that this is a safe and happy world.
Anybody who knows what the real world is like would agree.

Got a point. But Socialism isn't the answer either.

in the Democratic Party, the minority who are radical socialist’s that think our country is evil and should be destroyed have the loudest voices as if they are the majority

That's what happens with everything these days. The majority of people on this planet have mostly happy lives, yet all you hear is the stories from those who don't. More good things happen on this earth than bad, yet all the news/internet/media tells you is the planet's going to die because all humans are terrible. More happy moments happen across this planet than we think, yet no one talks about it. People like to push bad things out of proportion, and I'm pretty sick of it.

Not everyone on the planet is evil, simple as that. Not all art majors end up unemployed, not all political opinions involve slaughtering half the country, not all religious people want to kill atheists, not all straight people are out to kill gays, and most importantly: NOT EVERY HUMAN TO WALK THIS PLANET IS A FREAKING PSYCHOPATH

Negativity always has the loudest voice, and I may never be able to understand why.

I'm going to be extremely blunt and maybe a bit rude here, just a warning

If you truly believe that the majority of people on this Earth live good, happy, lives, then I'm sorry but you're delusional and very, very sheltered. I've seen too many homeless people begging for money, too many drug addicts digging through the fucking trash in the middle of the night, too many sick people, too many dying people, too many people with super fucked up lives to believe that this is a safe and happy world.
Anybody who knows what the real world is like would agree.

Got a point. But Socialism isn't the answer either.

Why is that?

Forgive my vulgarity of responding with a political video off Youtube. But hopefully it illustrates my point.

I don't have access to youtube, sorry

Would hooktube work? Replace the domain with hooktube.com.

@"The Althalosian" 's video URL is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZz2HF5KtrY.

The hooktube URL is https://hooktube.com/watch?v=zZz2HF5KtrY

what's hooktube?

in the Democratic Party, the minority who are radical socialist’s that think our country is evil and should be destroyed have the loudest voices as if they are the majority

That's what happens with everything these days. The majority of people on this planet have mostly happy lives, yet all you hear is the stories from those who don't. More good things happen on this earth than bad, yet all the news/internet/media tells you is the planet's going to die because all humans are terrible. More happy moments happen across this planet than we think, yet no one talks about it. People like to push bad things out of proportion, and I'm pretty sick of it.

Not everyone on the planet is evil, simple as that. Not all art majors end up unemployed, not all political opinions involve slaughtering half the country, not all religious people want to kill atheists, not all straight people are out to kill gays, and most importantly: NOT EVERY HUMAN TO WALK THIS PLANET IS A FREAKING PSYCHOPATH

Negativity always has the loudest voice, and I may never be able to understand why.

I'm going to be extremely blunt and maybe a bit rude here, just a warning

If you truly believe that the majority of people on this Earth live good, happy lives, then I'm sorry but you're delusional and very, very sheltered. I've seen too many homeless people begging for money, too many drug addicts digging through the fucking trash in the middle of the night, too many sick people, too many dying people, too many people with super fucked up lives to believe that this is a safe and happy world.
Anybody who knows what the real world is like would agree.

I didn't say bad things don't happen, I know there are people who do suffer and we should be aware of that and try to help, but unlike what you hear from the internet not everyone is in a state of severe suffering.

Too many homeless people begging for money

While you're right, there are way too many homeless people and we need to make efforts to stop it, they aren't the majority. In the US, homeless people are only about 0.17% of the population.

Too many drug addicts digging through the pancaking trash in the middle of the night

Again, there are way too many drug and alcohol addicts and we need to be aware of that, they still aren't the majority. They equal to about 10% of the population, although those numbers are slowly increasing.

Too many sick people

While I have to admit, the majority of people have been sick before, modern medicine is improving and we're getting better at combatting all sorts of illnesses and disease.

Too many dying people

I'll admit it here too, 100% of people are going to die, that's something we can't change. What we can do is try and keep them alive as long as possible, and from what I've read, about two-thirds of deaths worldwide are from old age. (Note: I'm aware you don't just "die of old age", it's other things that kill you, I'm just trying to simplify this)

Too many people with super pancaked up lives

While I have no evidence to prove the majority of people are blissfully happy and never have any problems, I can show some things:
Only about 5% of the population has depression.
Religious tolerance in the US is increasing, with the majority of most religions agreeing that beliefs besides their own can lead to eternal life.
LGBT people are becoming more and more accepted into society.
Racism has declined rapidly these past few generations.
Sexism is also decreasing in extreme amounts, to the point where women and men practically equal.

The world isn't completely perfect, and it's never going to be. But one thing I've learned from my drawing habit is that while it's healthy to be aware of mistakes and try to fix them, if you only see mistakes and don't take the time to acknowledge the good things, you may end up destroying all that was great in the first place. So why does no one ever acknowledge the good things? Why must everything try to tell us that our world is broken and hopeless? The more it's said, the more people start to believe it, forcing normally happy people into thinking that they don't matter and that they can't change anything because the world is "broken beyond repair" and they're just "another average human". And I'm saying this from experience, I used to believe that the world was broken, I thought I was just another pointless life that would never be anything special. And while I may not be some miracle child that's changed the lives of millions, I've made some people happier even in small ways and there are many people out there who love and care about me.

I've seen too many people's lives change in amazing ways, I've seen too many incredible moments, and I've witnessed too many miracles, some right in front of my eyes to believe that this world is anything but beautiful. And maybe I am just a delusional, sheltered child with no understanding of the real world, but I'd rather live my life blinded by the light than waste it consumed in a pit of shadows. I'd rather think I can make a difference than walk around telling myself that my life is meaningless and I'm just going to be another forgotten soul. I'd rather smile and live a happy life than feel like the planet would be better off if I didn't exist simply because I have a different view than most. I want to be happy, and I want everyone else to be happy. (GOSH this took me way longer to write than it should've)

Let's also not forget the most solid evidence that the world is good: Cats exist

Let's also not forget the most solid evidence that the world is good: Dogs exist

Fixed it for you

Let's also not forget the most solid evidence that the world is good: Dogs exist

Fixed it for you

That too (I LOVE DOGGOS SO MUCH)

making an observation here but for someone who argued that "the world isn't as bad as the internet says it is" your 'happy' sources are all information taken from the internet… So how can we believe that too?

The world isn't completely perfect, and it's never going to be. But one thing I've learned from my drawing habit is that while it's healthy to be aware of mistakes and try to fix them, if you only see mistakes and don't take the time to acknowledge the good things, you may end up destroying all that was great in the first place. So why does no one ever acknowledge the good things? Why must everything try to tell us that our world is broken and hopeless? The more it's said, the more people start to believe it, forcing normally happy people into thinking that they don't matter and that they can't change anything because the world is "broken beyond repair" and they're just "another average human". And I'm saying this from experience, I used to believe that the world was broken, I thought I was just another pointless life that would never be anything special. And while I may not be some miracle child that's changed the lives of millions, I've made some people happier even in small ways and there are many people out there who love and care about me.

I've seen too many people's lives change in amazing ways, I've seen too many incredible moments, and I've witnessed too many miracles, some right in front of my eyes to believe that this world is anything but beautiful. And maybe I am just a delusional, sheltered child with no understanding of the real world, but I'd rather live my life blinded by the light than waste it consumed in a pit of shadows. I'd rather think I can make a difference than walk around telling myself that my life is meaningless and I'm just going to be another forgotten soul. I'd rather smile and live a happy life than feel like the planet would be better off if I didn't exist simply because I have a different view than most. I want to be happy, and I want everyone else to be happy.

This is beautiful.

making an observation here but for someone who argued that "the world isn't as bad as the internet says it is" your 'happy' sources are all information taken from the internet… So how can we believe that too?

True. Just looking at this pinterest board, I'm sure that many of them are fake because where's the stuff backing it up, and the majority are actually acting as 'inspiration porn' for disabled people like the one about the girl feeding the armless man or the blind boy (Even just logically, the poster is assuming he's totally blind so how would he know what green, brown, leaves etc. are like?)

@"The Althalosian" what did you think of my post on US/UK crime rates?

someone said Socialism isn’t the answer and a response read why is that. Simple answer, socialism will never work. Eventually you run out of everyone else’s money and then where do you go oh wait I forgot most liberals are too naïve and/or stupid to realize that

someone said Socialism isn’t the answer and a response read why is that. Simple answer, socialism will never work. Eventually you run out of everyone else’s money and then where do you go oh wait I forgot most liberals are too naïve and/or stupid to realize that

Please refrain from outright attacking anyone here. After all, this is a civil debate thread. And frankly, debating includes pursuasion and factual information, not loose tempers and degradation. However, if you have supporting sources and evidence to your claim, please do share with the rest of us here. If you do not have supporting resources for your information then it's probably best not to indulge in such mannnerisms until you find those credible sources. I would hate for this chat to derail into meaningless blather as everyone attacks everyone, eventually leading to @andrew (Our Supreme Lord and Overseer) locking this thread to halt further discussion.
So yes, if you have factual information containing that liberals are indeed "too naive and/or stupid", then please do share your sources with the rest of us, as everyone else has been doing with their claims.

making an observation here but for someone who argued that "the world isn't as bad as the internet says it is" your 'happy' sources are all information taken from the internet… So how can we believe that too?

That's a good observation, I explained that part badly. By "the internet" I was mostly referring to news sites and social media because they tend to have a depressing atmosphere. News sites I understand, you go there to hear about the latest tragedies, not a cute story of a three-year-old who saved a kitten from drowning. But with social media (including stuff like Notebook.ai and PaigeeWorld), people like to push those tragedies out of proportion and act like none of the improvement made on those issues exist. They spout out these awful lies and act like they're some sort of "hard truth to accept" (Example: "No one loves me/No one loves you"). Also, when it's considered perfectly acceptable to scream "MOOOOD" in response to someone's vent about how they want to die instead of trying to help them, you know there's something wrong.

The first few messages of this thread might show you what I mean…

Hi. Shall we talk about how life is pointless and how none of us make no signifcant mark on the world, wasting time doing things that won’t matter in the future to distract ourselves from the worlds negatives, only to die in a way that will make others miserable, repeating this cycle until the earth is destroyed.

Us humans are slowly ridding the world of all its natural resources, slowly killing off all animals in sight for our petty needs, killing environments, polluting the sky, overpopulating locations. We are the true cause of all death to humanity, and we don’t even care. One day all of us will die to the death of all resources, and or the explosion of the sun.

Yeah, like start a war over killing other people, stopping slavery (which wasn’t actually stopped world wide but it’s an upside even though people still discriminate others for colored skin which is stupider then Cool Cat Saves the Kids’ writting.), show independence, elect Donald Trump as president (not a good thing), accept the fact that the border isn’t the fucking problem for the constant drug use since you can order that shit online, Fortnite(POSSIBLY THE WORST EVER THING TO HAPPEN TO MY LIFE OH MY FUCKING GOD I HATE IT SO MUCH), In app purchases that are not DLC, Derek Savage spreading npmisinformation on the FairUse law in America, Article Thirteens exsistence, cancer, overpopulation, and many more. You act like the world is just all positive which is a good mindset to have but reality hits like a truck when you realize how fucked up our society is, and yet our laws can sometimes be the stupidest things to exsist, we can’t just turn back time and make a perfect world that everyone wants, even if society would ‘save’ the world by changing everyone’s actions, that still doesn’t mean someone would rebel against it seeing that no world is perfect to everyone because people are little pieces of dog shit that can’t be greatful for anything because parents can’t raise children.

So stop telling me just because I’m 14 years old that I can’t talk about this stuff, it needs to be addressed sometime in someone’s life, kids need to know that the world isn’t all sunshine’s and rainbows, life can stab you in your intestines throwing depression, family deaths, friend deaths, horrible injuries, bullying, kidnapping, rape, sexual cheating, pedophila, bad cringey movies cough Emoji movie cough.

I can sit down and debate literally every one of those messages, and I will if you want me to. (This is the debate thread after all)

True. Just looking at this Pinterest board, I'm sure that many of them are fake because where's the stuff backing it up, and the majority are actually acting as 'inspiration porn' for disabled people like the one about the girl feeding the armless man or the blind boy (Even just logically, the poster is assuming he's totally blind so how would he know what green, brown, leaves etc. are like?)

Well, of course, they're wholesome internet memes on a Pinterest board and we all know memes aren't reliable sources of information. The links I provided weren't to Pinterest boards or Buzzfeed articles, so I'd assume that they're a bit more reliable. And besides, it seems reasonable to believe that women are considered more equal to men in today's society than they were back when women weren't allowed to vote.