forum Let's talk about the most controversial shit

Started February 11, 2019 by @SaltyLasagna

tune

Well as long as crime is illegal, hate crime doesn't matter.

Also it depends what you mean by discriminate. Discrimination should be allowed for the individual.

Hate crime shouldn't be a thing! I should be able to hate whomever I please!

Agreed, although I personally don't hate anyone, it seems stupid to have to make laws forbidding you from hate. Now, if the hate gets violent, that's worthy of punishment but I'm not going to try to arrest my little brother for calling me a stupid-head.

Hate crime shouldn't be a thing! I should be able to hate whomever I please!

Agreed, although I personally don't hate anyone, it seems stupid to have to make laws forbidding you from hate. Now, if the hate gets violent, that's worthy of punishment but I'm not going to try to arrest my little brother for calling me a stupid-head.

Yeah that's what I meant. Also I think I misunderstood a little bit last night so my response doesn't really make sense.

Blep

Businesses should be able to discriminate!

Businesses should be able to discriminate!

How so and why?

Anyway they want. If you're black, Jewish, or gay, they should be able to not do anything for you.
Because if it is your business you should be able to make whatever dumb rules you want, and you should not be forced otherwise.
(PS I'm not annoyed at all. I just am putting exclamation points on everything because we are arguing!)

But what of altruism? What about allowing things as long as they do not harm others?
What happened to "love thy neighbor"?

(Understandable. I may have to leave soon though so hopefully someone comes along to continue the debate? I don't quite like arguing much, but so far I've found this kinda enjoyable. Thank you for that.)

Well does not serving someone = harming them? Especially if they have a very good chance of finding the same service elsewhere. And as much as I think those are good concepts, no one should be forced to be a good person.
(Welc.)

I don't think businesses should have the right to refuse service to anybody. If you make a service available to the public, that should mean it's available to everyone, regardless of their race, gender, sexuality, religion, etc.

I see your point and I just want to say that while I personally would not discriminate, if businesses were able to if they waned then what about big name brands and services? What if you weren't allowed to eat at McDonalds simply because you were black? I feel like that's getting close to segregation and could potentially make racism and stuff worse. If businesses were able to discriminate, then what would stop them from taking civil rights away from a group?

as for my fellow Americans, we have a duty to this country and ultimately have a duty to protect and defend the sacred U.S. constitution from enemies foreign and domestic; I see Trump as an enemy to the constitution, to the American people. I am definitely not a Democrat, but something needs to be done and The spineless Republicans definitely won’t do anything

I see your point and I just want to say that while I personally would not discriminate, if businesses were able to if they waned then what about big name brands and services? What if you weren't allowed to eat at McDonalds simply because you were black? I feel like that's getting close to segregation and could potentially make racism and stuff worse. If businesses were able to discriminate, then what would stop them from taking civil rights away from a group?

I posted this in another thread so I'll paste it here:

(It was just 50 years ago racial segregation was outlawed in American restaurants. Before that restaurants could choose whether or not to serve black patrons and let them sit down. Guess how many, especially in the south, did that)

Altruism is a concept that humanity as a whole will never be able to fully obtain or act on. It's just how we are as free willed people. With that being said I do not condone discrimination, but I understand that it will always be in this world. The world is unfair. Businesses should be run how ever the owner deems is right for them, as long as there is no violence I will not get offended by their discrimination.

Violent acts of hate and discrimination, on the other hand, I will oppose with my entire being. No one should suffer in pain for something they cannot help. Something as simple as the color of their skin or what have you.

People are talking about how terrible it is to do such things. I agree. But think about the alternative.
Businesses who are controlled by the government instead of themselves. For instance, religious hospitals being shut down because they refuse to do abortions. A Christian baker who is forced to lose everything he ever worked for because he refused to make a cake for a gay wedding. Think about what happens when the government decides what is right, and punish those to follow it, whether they believe in it or not.

I understand that, but imagine what would happen if several businesses started refusing to serve people due to their skin color, sexual orientation, etc. Imagine what would happen if a gay couple went to buy things for a baby they adopted but were refused service due to their sexual orientation. Imagine a person of color not being able to eat at restaurants because of their skin color.

Well then that's what the boycott culture is for. Those businesses would die.

See I believe in free will (which means people can discriminate whoever they want.) But at the end of the day when it comes to business, I don't think it is a smart idea to refuse service. Money is money after all. And if a cake for a gay couple is standing between me and closing my business then hell yea I'm making that cake. Discriminate in private then. Or make the cake with less love. Whatever. But businesses should be smart this is a dog eat dog world, they shouldn't bow to such a low.

Yeah, I can't really stop people from hating or discriminating. I wish people wouldn't hate, but I can't really stop them. I just don't want anybody refused service for something they can't control, and I don't want to rely on boycotts to stop businesses that discriminate because boycotts don't always work. An anti discrimination law is the only way we can ensure that everyone will have equal access to busniesses.
I believe in the right to express people's opinions. I think if you don't want to make a wedding cake for a gay couple, feel free to tell them, but you still have to make the cake.

So would you support forcing someone working as a DJ at a KKK party?

There was never a moment where I said I would force someone to do something, I merely stated that as a business owner they should not stoop so low as to refuse service for something so trivial as sexual orientation or skin color. The customer isn't harming them, so why refuse?

I was talking mostly to Salty. But yeah, it's dumb for business to be like that. But (obviously) I get the people who do it for religious reasons. But I think it's a choice that all business owners should be allowed to make. Without interference by the gov.

So would you support forcing someone working as a DJ at a KKK party?

Doesn't the KKK commit hate crimes?

I was talking mostly to Salty. But yeah, it's dumb for business to be like that. But (obviously) I get the people who do it for religious reasons. But I think it's a choice that all business owners should be allowed to make. Without interference by the gov.

The government has to interfere with some things. I understand that we can't have our government controlling us 24/7, but without it, this country would be utter chaos