forum Let's talk about the most controversial shit

Started February 11, 2019 by @SaltyLasagna

tune

I love how this has started a debate on how great the planet is, finally something I can join in on and understand in a way

True. Just looking at this Pinterest board, I'm sure that many of them are fake because where's the stuff backing it up, and the majority are actually acting as 'inspiration porn' for disabled people like the one about the girl feeding the armless man or the blind boy (Even just logically, the poster is assuming he's totally blind so how would he know what green, brown, leaves etc. are like?)

Well, of course, they're wholesome internet memes on a Pinterest board and we all know memes aren't reliable sources of information. The links I provided weren't to Pinterest boards or Buzzfeed articles, so I'd assume that they're a bit more reliable. And besides, it seems reasonable to believe that women are considered more equal to men in today's society than they were back when women weren't allowed to vote.

That link was posted in the 'When the site is very dead' chat, used for 'restoring faith in humanity'. When did I mention sexism? I was talking about the issue of inspiration porn for disabled people, which is a form of ableism and is a barrier to equality.

And not to rain on your parade, but gender inequality in general didn't suddenly end when American women got the right to vote. It took longer for women around the world to get voting rights and other rights. It's true that it was better than it was 100 years ago, but we still have a way to go. Some Swiss women didn't get the right to vote until 1991 - just 30 years ago. Until 1974 in the US, creditors could discriminate against applicants on numerous basis including gender and whether they were married (One non obvious consequence of this is that it was harder for women to leave abusive relationships if they couldn't get financial support). In Saudi Arabia, women still cannot travel abroad on their own, open a bank account, apply for a passport, and more. FGM (Female Genital Mutilation - It is not the equivalent of circumcision, it's much worse than that) has only recently started to be recognised as an issue from the early 2000s.

True. Just looking at this Pinterest board, I'm sure that many of them are fake because where's the stuff backing it up, and the majority are actually acting as 'inspiration porn' for disabled people like the one about the girl feeding the armless man or the blind boy (Even just logically, the poster is assuming he's totally blind so how would he know what green, brown, leaves etc. are like?)

Well, of course, they're wholesome internet memes on a Pinterest board and we all know memes aren't reliable sources of information. The links I provided weren't to Pinterest boards or Buzzfeed articles, so I'd assume that they're a bit more reliable. And besides, it seems reasonable to believe that women are considered more equal to men in today's society than they were back when women weren't allowed to vote.

That link was posted in the 'When the site is very dead' chat, used for 'restoring faith in humanity'. When did I mention sexism? I was talking about the issue of inspiration porn for disabled people, which is a form of ableism and is a barrier to equality.

And not to rain on your parade, but gender inequality in general didn't suddenly end when American women got the right to vote. It took longer for women around the world to get voting rights and other rights. It's true that it was better than it was 100 years ago, but we still have a way to go. Some Swiss women didn't get the right to vote until 1991 - just 30 years ago. Until 1974 in the US, creditors could discriminate against applicants on numerous basis including gender and whether they were married (One non obvious consequence of this is that it was harder for women to leave abusive relationships if they couldn't get financial support). In Saudi Arabia, women still cannot travel abroad on their own, open a bank account, apply for a passport, and more. FGM (Female Genital Mutilation - It is not the equivalent of circumcision, it's much worse than that) has only recently started to be recognised as an issue from the early 2000s.

You didn't mention sexism, I did in my original post while trying to show that the planet is improving, which is what Eris was responding to. She asked how we should believe the links I provided from the internet if, as I had mentioned, the internet is desperately trying to make the world seem terrible, and of the "happy links" I provided, that was the one I chose to mention as an example. I'm aware that we have a long way to go to reach equality, and it will most likely never happen, but it's not going to improve if no one tries.

-Which is why I can't stand it when people say things like "Life is pointless and we'll never make a significant mark on the world", Of course you can't! You aren't trying! If we all believed we could change the world and actively reached for that goal, we might someday achieve it. If we keep telling ourselves we'll never get there, we actually won't get there, cause any person who does have the ability to change things won't even bother trying.

You didn't mention sexism, I did in my original post while trying to show that the planet is improving, which is what Eris was responding to.

Ok, I thought you were replying to me because you quoted my post.

I'm aware that we have a long way to go to reach equality, and it will most likely never happen, but it's not going to improve if no one tries.

True. That's why we have anti discrimination movements after all.

-Which is why I can't stand it when people say things like "Life is pointless and we'll never make a significant mark on the world", Of course you can't! You aren't trying!

Eh, whenever I hear that phrase people are mainly talking about reaching celebrity/famous status (Like how most writers won't be the next JK Rowling/Steven King, most people won't be remembered after 3 generations etc.). But I do get your point. Even if utopia's unachievable that doesn't mean we can't work towards the next best thing.

If we keep telling ourselves we'll never get there, we actually won't get there, cause any person who does have the ability to change things won't even bother trying.

Well the issue is also with entrenched beliefs which tell the person that they're right. Like for instance, men being raised to deny their emotions and to see women as objects. Or religious leaders using their religion to justify homophobia. Or climate change denial.

The assertion about liberals being naïve and stupid is because of a lot of people on the left calling for socialistic programs that will never work in the long run and the majority of people who are left of centrist Democrats supporting these stupid ideas

I think I'll leave this chat in a while because it's definitely not making me happy

(Edit: @ ahollinger00, it wasn't your single post that caused me to say that. I was already avoiding this kind of thread so I shouldn't have posted in the first place)

(Edit 2: Often I disagree with people here - American politics is typically more right wing than European politics anyway - but I've decided I won't say anything because I haven't seen these 'debates' go anywhere - cause people to change or appreciate different opinions - and they generally descend into extreme misunderstandings or mud slinging)

The assertion is not true for the majority of Democrats but for the ones who support people such as Bernie Sanders and aoc from New York a.k.a. the one who proposed the (if implemented) disastrous green new deal, what I said couldn’t be more true

socialism has led to 100 million deaths in the 20th century alone

socialism has led to 100 million deaths in the 20th century alone

If you could link your sources here to the chat, I'd happily read through it. But without sources I hope you understand I can't take much of your claims as "the truth". In the meantime, I'll conduct my own research into the issue.
I would just really like to know where you're getting your facts so I can read them as well. Thanks :)

It's true, there are a lot of stupid liberals, but there are also stupid conservatives, libertarians, etc. Every group on the planet contains some stupid people, and I'm willing to admit that.

https://www.dailyrepublic.com/all-dr-news/solano-news/solano-business/millions-of-deaths-separate-capitalism-socialism/

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/100-years-of-communismand-100-million-dead-1510011810

Thank you! :D

there are indeed some stupid and/or ignorant conservatives ; (The ones who support trumps every move) which aren’t even true conservatives because if they were they wouldn’t support trumps emergency declaration because we do not have an emergency at the border right now

now, do you really want to support those policies that have killed 100 million people?

I can’t blame you with our education system. If you listen to them, you’re taught that America is bad and that socialism is the future

notebook accessibility problems are getting on my nerves certain stuff I can’t even use anymore LOL

I just want to say this for Americans, whether or not it'll change your opinion.

A lot of what you are talking about/have controversies over in the country, like gun control, LGBT+ rights, socialism, abortion rights, universal healthcare etc. are standard in Europe.

Even the Democratic Party would be considered right wing over here. The stuff that Bernie Sanders said he would put in place as President, we already have. If that scares you, just look at the manifesto of the British Labour Party, our main left wing/socialist party.

(Edit: The full link for @ ahollinger if you can't access the other one: https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/labour-manifesto-2017.pdf. Just trying to be more accessible)

can’t even create a new discussion because every time I try voiceover jumps to the search field that’s next to where you start a discussion

Socialism ≠ Communism lmao every European knows this

can’t even create a new discussion because every time I try voiceover jumps to the search field that’s next to where you start a discussion

That's disgusting, that means you're not getting a voice. Have you talked to @andrew (Our Supreme Lord and Overseer) about this?

Socialism ≠ Communism lmao every European knows this

While I don't quite know the difference because I've never really cared until a few weeks ago, If what I've heard is correct, neither of them will ever work.

communism and socialism are very similar but no they’re not equal but you can’t have socialism without communism and you can’t have communism without socialism because they’re both the same idea

I would try to talk to him but I can’t because like I said the discussion starter thing doesn’t really work with voiceover anymore

so much stuff on the profiles that I can’t access and/or update