forum Debate. Debate. Debate.

Started March 14, 2019 by Deleted user

tune

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Debate: is live performance (musicals, plays, opera, ballet…) a dying art?

I just spend 3 weeks at a theatre camp and got back from a musical less than an hour ago, so I'd say no.

The opera might be, but musical theater is at a huge peak right now.

DEH and Hamilton lead the charge.

I agree, musical theatre is becoming more and more popular (hehe) with the rise of shows like Hamilton, Dear Evan Hansen, Heathers, Be More Chill, especially with an increase of shows with diverse casts, oppertunities for schools to go see shows, taking on topics like mental health, sex and sexuality, racism, etc.

What did you think about Lin Manuel Miranda’s thing about no white people allowed in Hamilton?

Technically white people are allowed, but not as the main characters, only as ensemble or King George III. Personally I'm fine with it because I know that as a white person I have a plethora of other shows open to me (intentionally or not, a casting director would be more likely to cast a white girl as, say, Elle Woods, than they would a not white girl) and I know that part of Lin's inspiration for writing Hamilton was to give POC a chance to star in a historical show after a lot of their history has been ignored by the textbooks.
So while I'd love to play a character, I understand that there's symbolism in the casting and such.

But wasn’t that still a form of racism?

I don't think so– he's giving white people one limit as opposed to the many that non-White people face. He's giving others a chance.

But wasn’t that still a form of racism?

Since the roles and musical were written with POC in mind, it's not any different than saying that a white girl can't play Kim in Miss Saigon, or Jasmine in Aladdin, etc.

I don't think so– he's giving white people one limit as opposed to the many that non-White people face. He's giving others a chance.

Yep, I agree. I mean, it's not like there aren't any other shows where there are plenty of white people in it and very little or no POC.

But wasn’t that still a form of racism?

Since the roles and musical were written with POC in mind, it's not any different than saying that a white girl can't play Kim in Miss Saigon, or Jasmine in Aladdin, etc.

Except Jasmine is not white. By that argument, it makes sense to say that only white people could be in Hamilton.

I don't think so– he's giving white people one limit as opposed to the many that non-White people face. He's giving others a chance.

By taking away the chance for white people. If he did colorblind auditions I would be 100% on board with that. But he didn’t. He gave one racial group preferential treatment while denying it to another. If that isn’t racism then I don’t know what is.

Okay, I don't mean to sound rude or whatever, but are you hearing yourself? White people have so many chances, and I mean many (im speaking as a POC) I don't understand why when there's something where another racial group gets more attention (despite rarely getting any unless its negative) it's an issue.

Because racism is still racism. Even when it’s against the race that normally has the unfair high ground. Equality is what we want. Not making things unfair the other way.

My point still stands. Especially the last part.

His point was literally that the US has POC and in history they got very little recognition, and he wanted them to be recognized, was it not?

No one ever said white people are excluded and I do understand that. Racism isn't okay no matter what party you're a part of but I don't understand why when a POC gets the role or whatever, it's an issue– despite white people being more likely to get it in most shows than any other poc

But wasn’t that still a form of racism?

Since the roles and musical were written with POC in mind, it's not any different than saying that a white girl can't play Kim in Miss Saigon, or Jasmine in Aladdin, etc.

Except Jasmine is not white. By that argument, it makes sense to say that only white people could be in Hamilton.

That's why I said that Jasmine shouldn't be played by white people. Because she was written as a not-white woman.

No one ever said white people are excluded and I do understand that. Racism isn't okay no matter what party you're a part of but I don't understand why when a POC gets the role or whatever, it's an issue– despite white people being more likely to get it in most shows than any other poc

And in Hamilton, white people can still play ensemble parts, and King George. Just not the leads. As a white person, we have so many shows starring white people, and tbh I feel like people wouldn't even complain if Hamilton wasn't so popular.

His point was literally that the US has POC and in history they got very little recognition, and he wanted them to be recognized, was it not?

Yeah, that was the point Lin was making. Not racism.

No one ever said white people are excluded and I do understand that. Racism isn't okay no matter what party you're a part of but I don't understand why when a POC gets the role or whatever, it's an issue– despite white people being more likely to get it in most shows than any other poc

And in Hamilton, white people can still play ensemble parts, and King George. Just not the leads. As a white person, we have so many shows starring white people, and tbh I feel like people wouldn't even complain if Hamilton wasn't so popular.

Yes, thank you

No one ever said white people are excluded and I do understand that. Racism isn't okay no matter what party you're a part of but I don't understand why when a POC gets the role or whatever, it's an issue– despite white people being more likely to get it in most shows than any other poc

The issue isn’t that a non white person got the role. I don’t care. I think Washington being played by the man he was was a fantastic decision. The issue is that people were barred from Hamilton based on the color of their skin.

No one ever said white people are excluded and I do understand that. Racism isn't okay no matter what party you're a part of but I don't understand why when a POC gets the role or whatever, it's an issue– despite white people being more likely to get it in most shows than any other poc

The issue isn’t that a non white person got the role. I don’t care. I think Washington being played by the man he was was a fantastic decision. The issue is that people were barred from Hamilton based on the color of their skin.

Not barred from the show, barred from certain parts. White people can still play King George, and iirc can be in the ensemble, but the leads are POC.

But wasn’t that still a form of racism?

Since the roles and musical were written with POC in mind, it's not any different than saying that a white girl can't play Kim in Miss Saigon, or Jasmine in Aladdin, etc.

Except Jasmine is not white. By that argument, it makes sense to say that only white people could be in Hamilton.

That's why I said that Jasmine shouldn't be played by white people. Because she was written as a not-white woman.

I’m confused. Let me restate. By that reasoning only white people should have been allowed to be in Hamilton. Which would have been a great pity in my opinion.

No one ever said white people are excluded and I do understand that. Racism isn't okay no matter what party you're a part of but I don't understand why when a POC gets the role or whatever, it's an issue– despite white people being more likely to get it in most shows than any other poc

The issue isn’t that a non white person got the role. I don’t care. I think Washington being played by the man he was was a fantastic decision. The issue is that people were barred from Hamilton based on the color of their skin.

Not barred from the show, barred from certain parts. White people can still play King George, and iirc can be in the ensemble, but the leads are POC.

Only the characters that don’t matter except for one guy. That sounds like The Token White Person.