Please let me critique characters!!! [CLOSED - SORRY!]
Started May 20, 2020 by @CinnamonRoll

Hi guys!! Round-up time!!

Tonight I'll be critiquing @amber_is_a_starchild and @Divine-Irish-Potato!!

Tomorrow, it'll be @Kinarymo and @Oakley-is-Oaken-Bull!

Day after that (the 18th) @stolenbrocoli has the first slot!!! Peak harshness will either be very difficult or worryingly easy for me to do. We'll see how the mood is on Thursday!

@ella_grace - So glad you liked it!!! You worldbuilding is in fact incredible, but I wouldn't say your characters are too far behind, if they are at all. And I can't wait to see your characters on the thread in the future!!! :DDD

@CinnamonRoll

(hey!! we broke 10 pages!! cool!!!)

@amber_is_a_starchild - let's do this!! Top down on Kohmir…

Nature is overall VERY solid. I'm nit-picking here to find some issues, so if they don't apply perfectly, that's why!

There's actually just one major note that I have here: Kohmir's emotional expression. He's described as a person who can't deal with extreme emotion, isolating himself whenever it occurs because he has no idea how to cope. But that clashes with HUGE swaths of his character, since a lot of his actions and connections appear to be based off extreme emotion. He's supported by a relationship of deep platonic love, and he acts recklessly and is prone to making scenes when he feels the situation demands it. Kohmir doesn't keep his emotions in check, and he's certainly used to strong emotion. It feels a bit off to portray him as a person who doesn't know how to deal with strong emotions.

Okay, let's talk about my FAVORITE thing: religion and politics!! I think both are MAD important. For religion, it's helpful to delineate whether your character ascribes to organized religion or not, as well as why they're following that religion. This tells us how partial characters are to structure, as well as what motives that may have (tradition-based, faith-based, ambition-based, etc). And for non-religious characters, it's also nice to make the distinction between agnostic and atheistic, since it defines worldviews as more hopeful or nihilistic.

Then there's politics!! You already have some great characterization here, so DEFINITELY keep that stuff, but perhaps move it from politics. It's more morality. As for politics, I find it very helpful to rate each character on a scale of liberal-to-conservative. This works for all characters, even those who aren't politically active. And it can be used as a tool to define how open characters are to change!!

History and backstory is generally solid! I feel like there are just a couple things that need better roots. First one is prejudices. Since his village was raided, why doesn't he have a stronger prejudice against whichever group was responsible? And if he raised himself, how did his other prejudices develop? And then I also feel that you need a stronger basis for how his relationships formed. There's no hint of trust issues on Kohmir's page, but given how he raised himself, that's a little shocking. How willing was he to open up to the people around him?

And that is all I can offer you!! Seriously, this is a very well-written character, and I had to nitpick quite a bit to get some good critiques. Please come back by the thread again!! I love getting regulars. And of course, I hope that my notes can help you!! :DD

@CinnamonRoll

@Divine-Irish-Potato's turn!! Top down on Grimm…

Skimming through Grimm's sheet, I already know that this will be a sparse critique. He's a background character, so he doesn't have tons of depth, so I don't have much to work with. So I'm sorry if I have little to nothing to say!!!

I get that Grimm's whole thing is neutrality, but I feel like his politics could be taken WAY further. As someone who values neutrality, how does Grimm feel about war? How does he feel about government corruption? How does he feel about LOBBYING? You definitely don't have to give him a party, since I feel that would be a little wrong for him, but I think giving him a stance on a couple issues could be really neat!

A couple clarifications for Nature… first up, what's with the motivation of boredom? Does he want to be bored or does he want to escape boredom? And then the depression. How does that work for the immortal personification of death? Is it intrinsic to who he is, or is it a condition that influences his personality like with human characters?

"BEGINNING OF TIME" this gave me serotonin

I think that's all I can offer you!! I'm really sorry that it's so sparse–honestly, I've never critiqued a background character before, so I hope this is what you'd hoped for!! Please let me know if you'd like me to try and dig deeper!! And for now, I hope that these notes are helpful to you!! :DDD

@amber_is_in_a_loop

(hey!! we broke 10 pages!! cool!!!)

@amber_is_a_starchild - let's do this!! Top down on Kohmir…

Nature is overall VERY solid. I'm nit-picking here to find some issues, so if they don't apply perfectly, that's why!

There's actually just one major note that I have here: Kohmir's emotional expression. He's described as a person who can't deal with extreme emotion, isolating himself whenever it occurs because he has no idea how to cope. But that clashes with HUGE swaths of his character, since a lot of his actions and connections appear to be based off extreme emotion. He's supported by a relationship of deep platonic love, and he acts recklessly and is prone to making scenes when he feels the situation demands it. Kohmir doesn't keep his emotions in check, and he's certainly used to strong emotion. It feels a bit off to portray him as a person who doesn't know how to deal with strong emotions.

Okay, let's talk about my FAVORITE thing: religion and politics!! I think both are MAD important. For religion, it's helpful to delineate whether your character ascribes to organized religion or not, as well as why they're following that religion. This tells us how partial characters are to structure, as well as what motives that may have (tradition-based, faith-based, ambition-based, etc). And for non-religious characters, it's also nice to make the distinction between agnostic and atheistic, since it defines worldviews as more hopeful or nihilistic.

Then there's politics!! You already have some great characterization here, so DEFINITELY keep that stuff, but perhaps move it from politics. It's more morality. As for politics, I find it very helpful to rate each character on a scale of liberal-to-conservative. This works for all characters, even those who aren't politically active. And it can be used as a tool to define how open characters are to change!!

History and backstory is generally solid! I feel like there are just a couple things that need better roots. First one is prejudices. Since his village was raided, why doesn't he have a stronger prejudice against whichever group was responsible? And if he raised himself, how did his other prejudices develop? And then I also feel that you need a stronger basis for how his relationships formed. There's no hint of trust issues on Kohmir's page, but given how he raised himself, that's a little shocking. How willing was he to open up to the people around him?

And that is all I can offer you!! Seriously, this is a very well-written character, and I had to nitpick quite a bit to get some good critiques. Please come back by the thread again!! I love getting regulars. And of course, I hope that my notes can help you!! :DD

Thank you this is excellent!! I’ll definitely be back, thank you!

Deleted user

Hey! When you get the chance could you check out Brodie? Invalid Character

Deleted user

@CinnamonRoll could you please dig deeper? Just wondering…

@kanemoto_asuga

시 기생 (Shi Kisang) please critique this because i really need a second opinion.

@CinnamonRoll

Hi guys!!! rrrrrround-up time!!

Tonight's critiques go out to @Kinarymo and @Oakley-is-Oaken-Bull.
(Also @Divine-Irish-Potato! I'll do a bit more on Grimm tonight as well. Sorry–I wasn't quite sure how to critique a background character!! But I'll add a couple more notes, no problem).

Tomorrow, it's time for @stolenbrocoli and @zims (hello again)!!

Day after that is the 19th and therefore BREAK DAY!! I am quite excited.

But of course I'll be back right away on the 20th to critique @kanemoto_asuga!!

And @amber_is_a_starchild - I'm really glad you liked it!! And I can't wait to meet more of your characters!! :DD

@CinnamonRoll

I'm actually going to start with @Divine-Irish-Potato, since I guess I kind of did you dirty last night. I'm really sorry!!! So not really top down, I guess, but here's Grimm round two!

I found his awkward nature slightly off-putting. Grimm's been around since the dawn of time. In theory, he would've had PLENTY of time to develop solid people skills or shed self-consciousness entirely. As someone tasked with his job since his creation, it's not as though he would feel guilty in any way for death. In fact, he dislikes people who cheat death, so there's no reason for him to be uncomfortable around people due to ideas about the negative connotations of his job. I get how you may want to make an awkward death, but understand that you'll probably need some more precedent for that given the length of his life.

That's the same reason I don't fully understand the idea of death with depression. Given the length of his life, I would have expected him to have sought help or developed healthy coping methods. Not exactly that he would 'heal' his depression, because mental illness doesn't really work like that, but I feel like it could be interesting to explore how his response to depression has developed through the centuries.

I didn't mention backstory before because he's a background character, but I do feel you need a touch more. Most importantly, I think you have to establish how Grimm reacted to his position as a reaper of neutral souls. I feel like explaining how he feels/felt about his station will have a massive impact on his personality. I feel like I'm picking up hints of it, but not too much is shining through yet.

I really hope this helps you a bit more!! I'm sorry my previous critique was a little sparse. But may I say–please don't feel you need to overdevelop you background characters! I do this a LOT, and it kind of oversaturates my main cast. If you want to, please go crazy, of course, but don't be afraid to have background characters!! Anyway, rant over–I hope that this notes are helpful!! :DD

@CinnamonRoll

Okay, time for @Oakley-is-Oaken-Bull's Rig! Top down…

Skimming through Nature, I can tell that this is a VERY well-developed character. Kudos!!! (you totally lied to me, man. sparse??? PLEASE!) But of course, there are a couple minor issues. The first sentence of his personality type is of course a contradiction, but i feel like that one is easily explained away so long as you establish when Rig transfers from quiet to open. The more major contradiction is between his subdued social patterns and his actual actions. Someone reserved and subdued likely wouldn't be SUGGESTING new ideas around people they don't know, even if they're willing to TRY new ideas. And recognizing an authority that is anyone BUT who he's talking to speaks to a level of confidence that doesn't quite gel with his lack of openness.

Then there's his ease to judge. Rig does not seem like the kind of character to become entrenched in quickly formed opinions. He's friendly, he likes working with people, and although he doesn't like to talk about his own past, there is no indication that he doesn't care about what others have to say. I don't understand how he would become entrenched in quick judgements. Based on his other prejudices, sure, but not as much for people he doesn't know anything about.

I'm surprised there isn't anything about politics on this page. Rig strikes me as a guy with strong opinions about slavery (duh), and also potentially the wealthy class in general. I would expect him to have formed some fairly strong opinions about justice and injustice in the world around him.

Backstory seems to cut off abruptly, but that's okay because I already got a TON of great information!!! Really wonderful job here. The worldbuilding in this campaign is TOP NOTCH. I do have a note or two, but they're really small!! You don't need me to focus on backstory, come on! You've already given it so much love. But for starts–how on earth does this kid not have some degree of paranoia/trust issues? He basically lived on the run, always hiding from others, up until he's at least 12-ish. He was always going it alone, watching people die for him. I didn't see too much of that manifesting in his personality.

Next up, let's discuss this idea of 'they kept looking for him.' The idea of comparing escape to murder totally works, and I get how that works in the culture. However, that same example kind of confuses things for me. After a trail goes cold long enough in a murder case, it just sort of… slows down. People might keep looking, but it's much less active and more based on clues. Plus, the position of a slave seems kind of confused in this culture. On one hand, they're so valued that the search for escaped slaves rages for years. But on the other hand, when one was encountered in battle, it was seen as a free kill. So is that meant to be a blow to the owner, or is it genuinely the idea that slaves have no value? Because there's a clear contradiction there. So I suppose I'd just keep that in the back of your mind!

Aaaaaand I think that's all I have for you!!! As always, it was a joy to meet your character. I really hope you enjoy your campaign, and that my notes can help in your character's development!! :DDD

@CinnamonRoll

All right, @Kinarymo !!! Let's go top down on Avatar…

(also, if my critique is a touch sparse, please harass me for more!!! I am slightly tired tonight, so if this isn't up to scratch, let me know and I'll dig a little deeper tomorrow night! :D)

[the art in the gallery was provided by me] go off. go OFF. GO OFF. (I love when I get to see amazing art on this thread!!!! :D)

For starts, this is a WILDLY well-developed character, and any of my critiques will be nit-picks. Here's the first one: Prejudices. I am SO GLAD you included one, do NOT get me wrong, but I feel like you need to discuss how Avatar acts on his prejudice. He strikes me as grounded and self-aware, so it could be interesting to explore how he recognizes his prejudice and then acts or does not act upon it. Either way you go would be really neat, but I think you do need to talk about how Avatar acknowledges his biases.

Next: absent-mindedness. Given how firmly grounded Avatar seems, this feels out of place. He cares deeply about everyone around him. I feel like you could make absent-mindedness work, but you have to establish in what sense. For example, you could play it like his tendency to prize others above himself–he could grow absent-minded when the people around him require his full attention.

HUGE fan of that political description!!

History time!! Generally very solid, but of course I have a note or two. First, this human experimentation thing (or…. Morphidae experimentation). After that experience, HOW did he escape with just a strong distrust of humans?? I'd expect him to be actively waging war. Second, the loss of his wife and child. It doesn't make much sense that Avatar would retreat to his home and shut down entirely, given what happened to him. His time in captivity was traumatic and scarring. So why wouldn't he tear the world apart looking for his missing family, at least for a time?

Note before I wrap up: the worldbuilding here is some of the best I've ever seen. This species you've created is wildly interesting and entirely unique. Just… INCREDIBLE job. Seriously. Outstanding. <3

And that's all I can give you!!! I'll admit I was slightly crippled by my sleepiness, but in all honesty, I don't know how much I could give you at full power. Avatar is an amazingly well-developed character, and I had a great time reading all about him and his wonderful world. Thanks so much!!! And of course, I hope that my notes are helpful to you in some way!! :DDD

Deleted user

I'm actually going to start with @Divine-Irish-Potato, since I guess I kind of did you dirty last night. I'm really sorry!!! So not really top down, I guess, but here's Grimm round two!

I found his awkward nature slightly off-putting. Grimm's been around since the dawn of time. In theory, he would've had PLENTY of time to develop solid people skills or shed self-consciousness entirely. As someone tasked with his job since his creation, it's not as though he would feel guilty in any way for death. In fact, he dislikes people who cheat death, so there's no reason for him to be uncomfortable around people due to ideas about the negative connotations of his job. I get how you may want to make an awkward death, but understand that you'll probably need some more precedent for that given the length of his life.

That's the same reason I don't fully understand the idea of death with depression. Given the length of his life, I would have expected him to have sought help or developed healthy coping methods. Not exactly that he would 'heal' his depression, because mental illness doesn't really work like that, but I feel like it could be interesting to explore how his response to depression has developed through the centuries.

I didn't mention backstory before because he's a background character, but I do feel you need a touch more. Most importantly, I think you have to establish how Grimm reacted to his position as a reaper of neutral souls. I feel like explaining how he feels/felt about his station will have a massive impact on his personality. I feel like I'm picking up hints of it, but not too much is shining through yet.

I really hope this helps you a bit more!! I'm sorry my previous critique was a little sparse. But may I say–please don't feel you need to overdevelop you background characters! I do this a LOT, and it kind of oversaturates my main cast. If you want to, please go crazy, of course, but don't be afraid to have background characters!! Anyway, rant over–I hope that this notes are helpful!! :DD

Its more like nihilism than depression but its still depression-like

@Kinarymo

@CinnamonRoll (Ayyy, thankie, i try to add some bits of art to all my characters :"> And dw, the critique is gud, and i lov it u3u)

Imma try work on those things u mentioned, prejudices and flaws are usually my weak points, i do a terrible job there :")))
As for the history thing, i think i kinda left out one or two things, but him being left only with his distrust of humans would be caused by him being a kind being, who held no grudge and him not seeming too affected by it would be because his mind just deleted those memories. Also him not searching for his loved ones is sorta cuz he no longer felt their presence anywhere (which usually means said person is no more)

Tysm for the critique, i rlly appreciated it cuz it pointed out the things i left out. Dont be afraid to critique them down to the bone, the more merciless the critique the better :")))

@Musical_Queen

Hey, I was curious if you could critique this character? I started working on her story again and was wondering if you found any flaws. She isn't 100% complete though and she isn't my best. Thank you so much

@CinnamonRoll

What's up folks!!! Here's tonight's round-up:

Tonight I'll be critiquing @stolenbrocoli and @zims!

Tomorrow is BREAK DAY!! (I'm a touch excited, can you tell? :D)

Day after that (the 20th), it's time for @kanemoto_asuga and @Musical_Queen!!

@Divine-Irish-Potato - thank you!! The main issue with that point was my lack of understanding, so thank you for explaining!! I hope you enjoyed the critique overall :DD

@Kinarymo - I'm so glad you liked it!!! Believe me, I went hard–you just have an excellent character here. :D

@CinnamonRoll

First up is @stolenbrocoli's Danica!! I was told to be on the lookout for stereotypical punk-ness, so I'l keep an eye out for that! Top down…

Okay, first up is her bipolar disorder. (DISCLAIMER: I haven't written anyone with bipolar disorder to date, so I haven't done extensive research on the condition. So if you've done more than me and think I'm being dumb, feel free to ignore this critique–or, better yet, tell me what I'm doing wrong! Learning things is spicy.) From what I understand about bipolar disorder, it's part 'manic episodes' (heightened emotion, recklessness, etc) and part 'depressive episodes' (depression, suicidal thoughts, etc). Reading through Danica's character sheet, I see a ton of the manic half–for example, her petty crimes, her aggression, her superiority–but far less about the depressive half. It's totally fine to give Danica bipolar disorder, and I think it's a genuinely interesting way to play off her ingrained prejudices, but remember to write both halves of it!! Mannerisms and outer personality, though perhaps not inner personality, will be drastically changed by bipolar fluctuations.

Next, motivations! Given that I peeked ahead and learned that she's living in apocalyptic world, I know you can take this critique with a grain of salt. But it's still good to think about! So Danica is described as immature, impulsive, and even occasionally naive. She acts superior and aggressive. There's little to no indication that this is a front for any inner turmoil–so why the motivation of fear? Even if she's not afraid of something within her or expressing herself, fear tends to temper actions. Someone acting out of fear would lose a lot of their impulsivity and recklessness.

Then I have a note that miiiiiiight be about 'stereotypical punk.' I have nothing against what's currently on Danica's sheet, but I feel something's missing. Why do people… like Danica? She seems to have no real redeeming qualities. Even when she opens up to people, she acts superior and aggressive. What about Danica draws people to her? What part of her is kind, or brave, or loyal? Danica right now is solid, but she needs something to make her appealing to the people around her–something that'll make them stuck around.

(Oh and as for her sexuality–you could likely characterize her as either bisexual or pansexual. You'll have to do a bit of reading to figure out which suits her better! This doesn't mean Danica has to USE a label, since she seems like the kind of person who wouldn't want to slap a word onto her sexuality).

Witchcraft is NEAT!!! I would only clarify how Danica uses magic. Does she ascribe to the Wiccan ideal of "do no harm," or is she open to hexes and other, darker forms of magic?

History is solid!! A couple things. One, I think you need to include a touch more about her bipolar diagnosis. How does she initially react? We know how she FELT, but was there lashing out? Was there depression? Did she close herself off or did she try to prove the doctors wrong? Did she break down? LOT of ways to go with this!!

And then there's her dependence on her brother. This is a super fun character dynamic to explore!! I actually have a character with dependence issues myself (but hers are… REALLY unhealthy). So what I have here really isn't a critique, just a fun suggestion! I find it interesting to explore some questions about dependent characters to examine how they act in a variety of situations:

How do they act when the person they've bonded to is somehow taken away?
How much does their personality depend on the person they've bonded to?
If it's a LOT, how do they act if they bond to a much more negative or much more positive influence?

The dynamics of dependence are SO INTERESTING to dissect, so I would really encourage you to dig deep with it!

And that's all I have for you!! Don't worry, I don't think Danica is a stereotypical punk–her conflict over prejudices is the already proves that she has WAY more depth than that. Please let me know if you have any questions, and as always, I hope that my notes are helpful to you!! :DD

@CinnamonRoll

All right, @zims! Top down on Brodie…

OH YEAH BABY MINNESOTAAAAA (I am from MN, although y'all will never get more info than that. lovely state, quite lovely place to grow up! yeah I never intend to go back but sure was fun while it lasted).

Um–are you from MN? Because this slang is WAYYYYY too accurate. So he's from NORTH north huh?? I PROMISE I won't make too much of this critique about MN. I PROMISE! I'm just a little excited.

Okay, Nature is overall VERY solid. It's well-balanced and not overly confusing, so good job there! There's only one major clash I can see. A lot of Brodie's character is based on impulsivity and living life to the fullest. Yet he apparently tries to keep a level head. This doesn't make too much sense in character. I can understand how he would avoid things that would literally kill him, jeopardize his position at school, etc., but I don't see rationality bleeding into other aspects of his life. For example, I see him trying to be a chef 100%. But you know him better than me, so that's completely up to you!!

Nothing major to say about religion–good explanation! However, I do wonder: which denomination of protestantism? Is it just general protestant, or Lutheranism, Baptist, Presbytarian, etc.? Depending on which one you choose, you can also set up any friction or lack of friction between religion and politically liberal alignment!

(Minnetonka simply is not a small town. It's quite urban!)

Backstory is a tiny bit sparse. However, all you'd need backing for is prejudices, which you're still thinking about, so I'm not too angry. But here's what you could do: write backstory first and draw prejudices from that. Examine smaller details of the Minnesota town (most are majority white, which could add some implicit bias that he recognizes when reaching the more multicultural environments of Yale and the East Coast). Or discuss the smaller details of his church and his pastor's preaching. Maybe talk about any toxic masculinity he encountered in his high school. You can derive prejudices by writing more detailed backstory!!

Not completely sure if it's a typo since it contradicts the preceding sentence a bit, but his father teaching Brodie to be closed-off could be an interesting flaw/potential prejudice! Brodie working to overcome an ingrained idea that he shouldn't express himself is super interesting.

And that's all I can offer you!! I know it's not a ton, but Brodie is a really well-developed character! And before I go, may I say: I really admire what you're doing here, making stereotypical hockey boy characters with far more depth and character that most writers would offer them. It's interesting and fresh, and I love the way it's playing out so far!! And with that, I hope that my notes are helpful to you!! :DDD

Deleted user

Hey! I'm not from MN but I am from the midwest! :)) Yeah my thing was he obviously needs to be smart and like level-headed enough to get into an Ivy League school, but I still wanted to make him reckless dumb hockey boy. Yeah! So I don't know too much about Protestantism, I didn't even know there were branches to it until I decided Brodie would be Protestant so I'll definitely look into that! Thanks for letting me know, 'cause I didn't really look too much into Minnetonka, I just looked up Minnesota towns and was like that's definitely a small town, which looking it up now 53,000 people definitely isn't a small town so I'll fix that. Yeah, it was actually a typo, but now I'm thinking of changing it so that Brodie's dad might be a little more like "you're my only son and you're gonna act like it". Thanks! Hockey has always been one of my favorite sports, but it definitely doesn't leave much room with diversity and most of the guys in the majors seem to kinda sleazy I guess is the word. So I thought it would be cool to like try and do a like these guys have a lot more going on under the surface and how they deal with being in such toxic environment. And your notes are always super helpful!! I usually just have a base idea for these guys and you've been so awesome with figuring out how to develop them further. You're the best! So like thanks again! 😃

@stolenbrocoli

@CinnamonRoll Once again, thank you so much ! Like i said before i was super excited to hear what you had to say about this character. Honestly, the bipolar disorder is kind of a new development so i haven't really gotten into how she acts when she has these episodes, but I'll definitely get on that. Also, her dependence on her brother is SUPER unhealthy and there's a time where he goes missing and she has to survive her day without him, so as time goes on during that period, she does become more independent of him out of necessity. But I'll go back in and make some adjustments and add in those specifics that you suggested. :)

@Oakiin