forum Please let me critique characters!!! [CLOSED - SORRY!]

Started May 20, 2020 by @CinnamonRoll

tune

Okay, @Kinarymo, party time!! Top down on Narion…

As always, your character is ANNOYINGLY well-developed, to the point where I have to nitpick a lot to get notes. So, you know, usual stuff–if it doesn't make sense at ALL, just disregard!

First, I feel like you need to go deeper in the idea of losing positivity. It seems like a lot of Narion's personality is built around positivity: he takes the moral high ground, struggles to find the root of problems, gives of himself to help others. When he drains himself of positivity, how does that impact him? In particular, how does that change his dynamic with Rin–do his commands get darker? Is he less inclined to find a true solution, becoming somewhat jaded? Losing positivity for Narion would't just lead to sadness–it would lead to a LOT more than that.

Next up is a smaller note that doesn't necessarily have to be adopted, but I feel should be said nonetheless. Narion coming off as cold strikes me as wrong. I understand that he's introverted and doesn't like to talk to new people, which is totally fine, but that doesn't necessary give him a cold demeanor. He's a genuinely kind person. Even if he's a little shy, why doesn't he smile at people politely? Maybe offer to pour their drink or something? I just feel like at the very least, his vibes would be understood as warm and kind, perhaps a little awkward/standoffish, but not cold.

Narion's age is a little confusing (like, he's 23, but does he act like a human 23 year old or like a human 9 year old? who can say) so I'm just going to drop the religion/politics rants on the off chance that he's the equivalent of Human 23. You'll know that I yell about this a lot. (I'm not sure if I've told you? sorry if this is redundant!) Religion can be used as a vehicle to describe how traditional and structure-oriented characters are (if they ascribe to an organized religion). And it can define deeper traits–are the conniving, following religion for appearances? Or are they spiritual, seeking out the true faith that fits for them? Even for non-affiliated characters, this is helpful. Agnostic characters are more hopeful, atheistic characters more nihilistic. And as for politics, it's always helpful to rate characters on a scale of liberal-to-conservative, whatever those terms mean in your world. This works for characters who aren't politically active as well! Political stance is helpful, as it can be used to demonstrate how open characters are to change!

History is solid!!! I literally read through it four times struggling to find something to pick at, and… nothing. Alas, you stumped me! There's nothing WRONG here, but I would say there's a touch missing. Most notably are Narion's relationships with Rin and his father. When did he encounter Rin, and how did this relationship cause him to grow? His father is a bit more tricky. How did his encounter with his true parents change his relationship with his foster family? I have no doubt that Narion would still love them for how good they were to him, but how do THEY change upon realizing that their adopted son is Morphidae royalty? And how does his dependence on his birth father alter the relationship he has with his foster father in particular?

And that, my dear, is all I can offer you!! Your characters and your art continue to amaze me, and I REALLY can't wait for this series to be realized in literally any media format. And if it never is, I'm just really glad I got to meet these lovely characters!!! It really is a gift. As always, come back any time you'd like, and I hope that my notes are helpful to you!! :DDD

(wow!!!! 13 pages!! this is insane!)

Just a quick post here for @tiredandconfused - I generally stick to my timetable like it's divine law, but tonight I am, much like yourself, tired and confused. It's really late where I am, which is usually just fine, but tonight it's made me quite tired. I'm already tempted to rush through your critique, but rushed critiques are rarely good and I don't want to do you dirty like that. So for the sake of your critique as well as my sleep schedule, I'm going to save yours for tomorrow!! I'm really really sorry to spring this on you, but I think it's better all around. So first thing tomorrow night, I'll be back to critique Vyur!!!! Sorry again and thank you–I hope this is the best option! :DD

@CinnamonRoll That is totally understandable, you don't have to apologize! I wouldn't you to force yourself to critique if you're tired and I don't mind waiting until later.

Hello! Whenever you have some time, i'd appreciate some critic Mana Scintilla

@CinnamonRoll ayaaaa big text wall owo
Those are all good points i will take into consideration, thx for pointing them out ^^

I need to think that positivity thing through, but overall, Narion would end up being tired and energy depleted when his positivity runs out. As a Morphidae he has few chances of turning to a darker side, but its worth exploring.
Yea, the age thing is confusing, but in general he swings between emotional maturity and childish impulses.
As for the foster family, Narion is glad to have one of his biological parents back, but he also cares for the foster family just as much - after all, they put in a lot of effort to try and accomodate his needs the best they could.

Sjhhah im honestly rlly impressed someone finds my characters that much that they would want to see them in some form of media qvq I do plan on animating this series once i get through college, so maybe one day you'll get to see them come to life ^^ ❤❤❤

Hello my dears!!! I'm online earlier tonight so that I have a clear head for both critiques. Here's tonight's round-up:

Tonight, I'll be giving critiques to @tiredandconfused and @Clinquant!!

Nobody is scheduled beyond that (of course, walk-ins are always welcome!) (I say that like I'm running a hair salon here. who have I become)

@Kinarymo - so glad you liked it!!! And OF COURSE i want to see your characters in media!! You're their creator, and so no one can tell their story quite like you. (also if you're studying animation, that's so neat!)

Okay, @tiredandconfused, party time!! Thank you again for being so kind and understanding!! It's time to go top down on Kiram…

(i think i already told you that i think your art style is so cute and nice but i feel the need to tell you again that i love it!!!!)

So! Kiram's nature generally flows nicely, but there are a couple little snags. First up is his attention seeking. It pops up all over the page, but I have NO idea if it's truly superficial or not. Because generally, it's written as an act put on to please people around him, but it's also placed in flaws. That means it's a part of him, something that's not at all an act but rather a trait. So I have no problem with the trait itself, but you need to make it more clear how it exists in Kiram's personality. Honestly, given lots of his other traits (approval-seeking, emotionally turbulent, valuing social status/social presentation) I would expect it to be an ingrained traits, but you could write it either way.

Next, let's talk about his emotional turbulence. Kiram is emotionally volatie, lashing out and unafraid to offend the people around him. However, this clashes a LOT with the idea that he is motivated by acceptance. He has a presentable self that he clearly has some control over, so why would he just… lash out? Wouldn't that undermine his search for acceptance?

History is solid, but there is one thing that I think needs more explaining: the attention seeking!! Whether or not it's superficial, it needs a basis either in his mother's nature or in his. If it is superficial, you have to explain why his mother would WANT Kiram to attract so much attention–is it to take eyes off her? Is it based in her own past experiences (a living vicariously kind of thing)? And if it isn't, you NEED to explain why Kiram feels the need to distinguish himself so much. Is it due to a lack of attention from his mother outside of her scheming? Is it because he feels lost in the pool of Heir of Prophecy hopefuls? Etc., etc.

And I know that's not a lot, but it's all I have for you!! Kiram is a well-developed character in a niche not often explored. As always, come back around any time, and I hope that these notes are helpful to you!! :DDD

Ok, now it's time for @Clinquant!! Top down on Mana…

Nature has an overarching flow to it, but there are some small issues that need addressing. First up is how Mana is perceived. There are two perceptions described in the first field: popular and skilled versus cold and distant. You really need to clarify how others see her. Since she shies away from making friends, public persona is the majority of who Mana is in your story. So make sure that persona is coherent!

Next up is prejudices. I firmly believe that Mana needs a prejudice that is actually a prejudice, rather than just a questionable moral belief. Prejudices can be ingrained biases that characters recognize and act against, so they don't become bad people for having them. Think of something anti-you character's personality. Like, you could play off of how Mana likes to push her own limits physically and translate that into a prejudice against people who are overweight. She can SEE her prejudice and refuse to let it dictate how she treats people, but there should be something there.

And then a big thing. When I looked at social, I saw that Mana has friends and significant others. But notably lacking from her nature page is how Mana acts around the people she's close to. I was willing to excuse this since she's labeled a side character, but if she's in this many major relationships, I feel like you need to go deeper into how she acts when she's more relaxed. Is she still reserved, kind of emotionless, preferring dry humor and small displays of affection? Or does she relax completely, opening up and smiling a lot?

And quick bit about religion–for non-religious characters, it's always helpful to distinguish between agnostic and atheistic! This can be used as a vehicle to define a character's worldview as more hopeful or nihilistic, respectively.

Also, I'd really encourage you to fill out more Social fields!! They may look useless, but they go a long way to humanize your character. It's not strictly necessary, but it's really nice!

History is solid!! There's nothing really WRONG here. One thing I feel like could use a touch more rooting is motivations. It makes less sense that Mana craves stability in life, given that she's had that and therefore might take it for granted a bit. And she was never not free–at least not in what's written here. Make sure that the motivations are really well rooted in backstory, since they're basically going to define your character's trajectory!

And that is all I can offer you!! Mana is a solid side character who quite honestly has almost enough depth to make her a main. All she really needs is a bit more love to her softer side!! Come back any time with more characters!! And as for now, I hope that these notes are helpful to you!! :DD

@CinnamonRoll Thank you again! :) You make a good point about his attention seeking. I think that he genuinely wants attention but is unaware that as an introvert some privacy would make him happier. I'll have to change the wording to reflect that better. Kiram rarely lashes out in public and holds back his emotions in front of people he's trying to impress so it doesn't ruin his reputation. Instead, his emotions are more unstable in private places and he directs his anger at servants and other lower status people. For his backstory, I think there were a lot of factors that made him desire attention, but it was mostly because he rarely got attention from his mother and he had to frequently compete with his sister for his mother's love. His behavior was also reinforced by the royal court, where there is a lot of importance placed on reputation and those who are in the spotlight get a lot of praise, so Kiram often tried to be the center of attention to get approval. You pointed out some flaws I didn't notice, and I think your critiques will help a lot!

could you critique my villain? Erika

Hi guys!!! Round-up for tonight…

@tiredandconfused - so glad you liked it!! And thank you for your explanations–they're always helpful to me and generally quite interesting to read! I'm really happy I could bring light to things previously not noticed!! :DD

And tonight, just one critique on the docket–this one for @Isaac!!

All right!! Top down on Erika…

First little note is about her emotional health, and it's a small one. So if Erika deals with her stress with acceptance or confrontation (both very good and fairly healthy ways to deal with stress) why does she struggle dealing with bad emotions? Those two don't seem to gel–she has such a healthy response to one kind of negative feeling, and no healthy response described for another.

Nature is overall SO solid, annoyingly so. If you want to portray her as the face of this evil empire that we get into the head of a decent amount, this is literally perfect!!!! If you want to get into her head MORE, I would obviously suggest going a touch deeper into her softer side. I mean, she's acting nice, trying to be a leader everyone likes. With everyone acting calm and nice and respectful around her, it's almost IMPOSSIBLE that se wouldn't form some connections that would sting when severed. So that's good to explore if you REALLY want to flesh out her human side, but it's not necessary to give her humanity since she already has that.

And then one question/note that may be a touch more plot-based, so my apologies: her qualifications. Erika is a STEM kid, enjoying robotics and engineering. How did she end up as essentially a combo business leader/political leader? What in the world qualified her for that? Even moving up in the ranks, her peers probably had comparable experience, but a leg up with the fact that they worked with politics or economics or management. I'd urge you to add more qualifications to Erika, unless the plan is for her to take leadership by force–but that doesn't really seem like her style.

"too many words for politics please help" AHAAAA MY AREA OF (like, a little) EXPERTISE !!!!! So I think you could tie Erika's political vision together by describing her level of libertarianism!! She was previously working to keep the galaxy free from the government, and her whole goal by leading them is to make sure they're not THAT bad. This speaks to an idea that she's moderately libertarian–she wants to keep the control of the government small, but she recognizes that it's important and there are some things that government can do best. That way, it makes sense for her to be working in a government that she values, but also trying to keep it small so that she doesn't contradict her libertarian views. Just an idea, but one I think could work!! Of course, still remember to go liberal-to-conservative scale, since libertarianism is more of an add-on to existing views than an actual party (although it tends to not work well with further-left ideals like democratic socialism, socialism, and communism, obviously).

(Okay it's 11:30 right now so I guess you're not done with backstory yet?? I refreshed a couple times. That's totally fine!! But i wassssss planning to go to bed IMMEDIATELY after this critique (what can I say, work was busy today). Right now the backbone looks solid?? I don't have any complaints, really. If you'd like, I'll hop back on to Erika's page tomorrow for a quick backstory critique!!! But for now, I'll leave it be if that's okay!!)

And as for now, that's all I've got!!! Erika is a well-built villain with a motive that's sympathetic enough to cause your audience to question whether she's really bad, and a personality to deepen the confusion. Really nice job!! Let me know if you'd like me to give you a quick read of the backstory!! But for now, I hope that my notes are helpful!! :DDD

Hi hi, i bring to u my chaotic friend son :'>

Thank you so much for the feedback, I didn't realize so many things weren't making sense i'll work on her a bit more c:

@CinnamonRoll thank you for the critique (especially the politics bit)! could you look at her finished backstory? there isn't anything ~super~ important, but it covers where she got some of her qualifications. Erika

Hi folks!! Tonight's lovely round-up…

Tonight, I'll critique @Kinarymo (big shout out to you for keeping my thread ALIVE) and @Isaac's backstory!

@Clinquant - I'm really happy I could point some stuff out for you!! If you ever want a round 2 or want to show off more lovely characters, come back by the thread sometime! :DD

And I won't be online Saturday night (since it's the 4th). I will be watching fireworks from the safe, socially distant, bug-free, and air-conditioned inside of my car!!

@Kinarymo - party time yet again!! Top down on Hiryur…

(and you're probably sick of me saying this on every critique but your art HONESTLY has me some type of WAY–)

Okay! I remember this guy from my critique of Virion! But I don't KNOW him, so it's time for some personality notes. A lot of Hiryur's nature works, but there are a couple things that seem jarringly out of place. First is the way he acts around Virion. It seems strange that someone with such a forceful, powerful personality would tone it down around the man he's supposed to love and trust unconditionally. This would make sense if his flamboyance was a front, but writing that in would directly contradict the flippant and careless motivation of 'having fun' already written.

Speaking of those motivations, let's talk about them! Why is this guy some kind of bored sadist? This seems like it came out of NOWHERE. He's a deeply loving boyfriend with powerful undercurrents of affection, which already works against the idea of sadism (not full contradiction, but still). And more importantly, he believes in fair fights! How is randomly messing with a bunch of kids in traumatizing ways a fair fight?? And even if he decided to pull some pranks, he wouldn't be a dedicated antagonist. He doesn't care about these kids or their quest personally, so once they leave town, he'd be more likely to find another group to screw with rather than pursue your protagonists to the end of the earth. I tend to rag on 'messing with others for fun' motives because I personally believe villains deserve deeper motivations IF they're meant to be MAIN villains. And for Hiryur, the motive feels wrong for a variety of reasons.

And then just a couple notes on flaws. First up is control freak. Hiryur seems to lack a lot of agency. He only messes with people when his boyfriend isn't around, he seems to be willing to do everything for Virion, and he really just seems to like having fun for the sake of it. It just feels a little weird without further basis. Second is the lying–again, back to the fair fights thing.

Before I go on, one little thing. I know I expressed worries about Hiryur and Virion's relationship before, with my critique of Virion. And I know you don't have to take that advice, and if you don't want to, that's all you!! No worries, I promise!! But here's what I have to say anyhow. A lot of Hiryur and Virion's relationship is setting off warning bells in my mind as a little… toxic. I mean, Hiryur dilutes his personality around Virion. He has left-over ingrained flaws from Virion's initial attempts to turn him into the perfect pet–and yet still sees the elf as the only person who's been kind to him. He ONLY likes Virion. That reads as dangerously abusive. And a lot of what I'm seeing here tells me that Hiryur is dependent on his boyfriend, giving into sadistic impulses when Virion's not around. You don't have to change anything if you don't want to, but I feel the need to give you an outsider's perspective on this.

You've heard the religion and politics rants! I'm not going to put them here–you already know what's up! :D

Another red flag–does 'his master' mean… the man he's dating? If it's like consensual BDSM or something, that part is okay, but as of right now I am CONCERNED.

Two big things about backstory, and the second one is going to be me bringing light to more red flags. You KNOW I adore your characters, your worldbuilding, your stories, and your art, so I really hope you aren't offended by this in any way!!!! I promise I'm just trying to offer an outside perspective!

But the first thing is much more important to Hiryur's actual personality. A lot of his upbringing is based on subjugation (time in the circus+Virion's original intentions) and dependence (basically everything involving his upbringing with Virion). He went from unending submission to doting after his mentor/kind of father figure? That's totally fine as a character backstory, but it doesn't provide too much basis for 'flamboyant, independent, jacked-with-personality Fun Times Man.' Where did he gain his powerful force of personality? What part of his upbringing gave him what is essentially a rebellious phase with flavor? And how would he exist in a way contradictory to Virion without some level of rebellion that would somewhat impede their relationship?

Next up, me screeching about toxic relationships!! I guess the reason this is so jarring to me is that it feels so much like incest and toxicity/abuse at the same time. For the first, this man raised him from childhood on. Virion taught him everything he knows. Every part of that reads like a father-son relationship. And okay, Hiryur expressed his crush, but why did Virion stay open to the idea for so long? I think a lot of this is made creepy by the fact that they got together the MOMENT Hiryur was legal. That seems so strange because it indicates that Virion was ready for this to happen before that. It would even seem more okay if they'd taken a break from each other, growing apart for a couple years, only to reunite and realize that they're a good match. But that also raises the problem that Hiryur isn't stable without Virion, because he's a touch dependent on him (there's that toxicity).

And THAT got INSANELY long!! Sorry!! I really hope that you found at least some of the notes in here helpful, even if at least two paragraphs are relationship critiques. As always, I feel the need to reassure you that no matter what my feelings are on this one relationship in particular, I still adore your work!!!! Please don't leave my thread in a storm of rage or anything–I'll miss you and your characters. But even if you are calling it after this, I still really hope that these notes help you!! :DDD

@Isaac - okay!! Quick backstory critique!! I don't expect many issues here, so this might be quick, but we will see!

OH that idea of following historical patterns is just PERFECT, because worse governments arise worryingly often after revolutions!! I love that!! I love iT!!!!

However, I feel like her rising through the ranks still isn't really explained. Manipulation is Spicy, but where did she get the power to silently assassinate (probably with a hired killer) people who would defy her?? I can ONLY see her getting that power when she's at the top, so how did it help her get up there? Does the inner circle have representatives from stuff like robotics, maybe? Because then she could use her documented skills to gain a platform where she can pull out the leadership and political skills. Get there with science, stay with leadership!! It's just an idea off the top of my head, but I feel like the federation's inner circle would have representatives from each division of their operation so 'eVeRyOnE hAs a vOiCe.' And like they elect a chairperson or something, and THEN she can pull out the manipulation! I'm literally just spitballing and going WAYYYY too far. (but that way you could potentially start pulling parallels to the CCP!) I'm actually so sorry if you hate reading this. But the point is, make sure to add more backing for Erika's ascension!

And that's all I've got on backstory!! Like we both thought, not a ton of issues (as in literally just one). But I hope that my one note, and possibly my wacky ideas, are helpful to you!! :DDD

@CinnamonRoll ayaaa big lomg critique owo
Its fine dw dw, im not leaving anywhere, i genuinely enjoy the notes ^^

Tbh Hiryur was the first villain i made (recycled him from an older draft that was just incredibly terrible) so i did expect many flaws in his profile ^^ For one, i totally suck ass at giving my villains a motivation, idk why its so hard :')) so no wonder it doesnt tie in, im not even sure what to do at this point either :')) Suggestions? ^^'

But on the other hand, Hiryur kinda is intended to be nearly over dependent on Virion? Cuz ever since he was snatched up from the nest, everyone tried to force him into submission, while Virion was way more subtle about it, didnt show any disgust towards his true body (which everyone else before did), and sought to earn his trust first, plus he was a smol kid at the time, he just attached himself emotionally to Virion, he's the person he goes to for comfort. You take Virion away and he crashes into a panicked mess - he's not a very stable character, what can i say? :"))
I think Virion later tries to fix the over attachement mistake, but the damage is pretty much done at this point.
The circumstances of their relationship are shady asf, i know, but the way i saw it, Hiryur is an overly attached mess, and Virion himself is a bit emotional affection starved as well (given his past relationships) - so being in a so called relationship they're in a way offering each other the emotional comfort they're looking for, Hiryur getting the protective figure in his life, and Virion getting his emotional affection without having to worry about potential hidden intentions - they dont bang tho, that idea seems gross to me :')) The master part must have been smth i left out on accident ^^'
Overall, theres many things about him that need to be fixed, but i kinda ran out of ideas midway so ^^'

Hi guys!! Not too much to round up tonight!!

@Kinarymo - motivations are so hard!!!!! Thinking back to Hiryur's personality, I can come up with one big spitball idea. So he's been pushed into submission for a lot of his life. He's in a relationship that is healthy for him, but still comes with a dose of inferiority. He's unstable because he's literally never been able to (or, jesus, even HAD to) control any part of his life. (I would expect him to be bad at budgeting, but that's a separate thing). Whether consciously or not, I feel like Hiryur would be motivated by feelings of superiority and control. He talks suave and makes himself the flamboyant villain so people will see him. And the reason he gets so out of control with it is just what you said–he's unstable without his anchor. So he tries to be in control of his own life for once, to have power without gaining it by association with someone else, and he goes WAY too far. He gets addicted to the feeling of power without any of the control. His values of fairness start eroding as he starts to care more and more about how people see him–most importantly, if they fear him. He's in control now.

HOWEVER that is just an IDEA that I took WAYY too far, as I do with most of my ideas!!

I kinda like that framing of the relationship? Like it's unhealthy in a lot of ways but it's what they both needed at the time. That's a good way of viewing it!!

ANYhow, glad you enjoyed, and even more glad that you'll be sticking around no matter how long and meandering these critiques get!! See you again whenever you decide to drop another link (literally no rush though!!!! you are the artist here!!!)

And for you and everyone on this thread: have a lovely Fourth of July! Please don't inhale too much firework smoke! :DD

@CinnamonRoll thats actually a rlly good idea, i like it 😯 And it would make sense for his motivation and past. Thx a lot ^^

Hiryur is probably one of my messiest kids, like, he upgraded from dying in the only chapter he shows up to being a main baddie, with a ton of issues 😂 I dont think Virion would have raised him in any other way - the dude is a manipulative yakuza head, not a kindergarten teacher, its a miracle he even managed to raise him in the first place :')

I'd drop a link asap, tho im afraid not all my characters are fully developed and/or have a new place in the plot.
we dun celebrate 4th of july here, but ty anyway ^^

Oop, i found one 👀

Hey, I don't so much have a specific character for you to look at, but would you be willing to give me advice on writing a (side) character who is admired and respected and generally well-loved in their community? Like, a character the main cast might look up to, or trust, or want to ask for advice.
A character who has flaws, like everyone else, it's just their reputation proceeds them by like,,, five miles based on all the amazing stuff they've achieved, so their flaws get overlooked by those around them? for better or for worse
If this isn't something you feel comfortable doing, np! And if you do wanna do it, I can provide a better idea of what I'm talking about.
Thanks either way!

Hey! I'm back with another character I'd like critique on Halisia Khavilis