forum Debate. Debate. Debate.

Started March 14, 2019 by Deleted user

tune

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Alright, I was writing a really long essay thing about the current debate along with multiple other topics from that list but unfortunately, my terrible excuse for a little sister threw a tantrum and closed all my tabs… I'll return once I've processed just how many hours it will take to regain the stuff she deleted all because I wouldn't let her play video games while grounded.

DUDE! Press Control and Shift and T at the same time. It will bring all your tabs back instantly!

Too late, the entire window was closed and if I do get the tabs back up, the pages would refresh, leaving all the things I wrote down without saving to disappear. Luckily, the thing I was most worried about (a drawing in progress) autosaved, so I only lost a minute worth of doodles.

Try anyways. It normally works still.

…
Okay, there's only 10 minutes worth of stuff missing now

Thank you!!!!!!!!

What can I say except you're welcome.

Moana soundtrack blasts in the background

Enthusiastically tunes in.

https://owlcation.com/academia/100-Debate-Topics
Some really good lists here

Found some from that article that I have strong opinions on:
(Note: You guys can continue your debate, I started researching and writing this before the current topic started…)
(Another note: yes, this was the essay thing I thought I lost, it's quite disappointing in length considering how long it took and how much I scrapped but I'm so glad I don't have to re-write it that I don't care)

Companies should be required to hire 50% male and 50% female employees.

Or, maybe, they should hire people based on their capabilities instead of just their sex? Seriously, if you're hiring a woman over a man simply because she's female and you want more female workers, that's actual sexism and should not be encouraged.

Religion does more harm than good.

The only ways I've seen religion harm people is by dividing us (which, as religious tolerance and freedom continue to increase, isn't as much of an issue anymore, but still exists) and encouraging discrimination/violence (mainly towards LGBT people). Sure, those are serious problems, but when compared to the good religion has caused, such as… takes a deep breath

• Helping the homeless, founding charities, educating children, comforting those who mourn, assisting the disabled, teaching good morals, helping the environment, vaccinating people, feeding the poor, building homes, caring for orphans, bringing clean water to those without, helping the mentally ill, uniting people, pushing for equality/empowering women, caring for the elderly, creating beautiful works of art/architecture, fighting stereotypes, providing jobs, combating disease, bringing love and support to victims of abuse/violence, treating illness, helping pregnant teens, fighting against animal abuse, combating slavery, showing hospitality towards those in need, raising awareness of multiple issues including poverty and mental illness, marrying couples, advancing society, encouraging love and compassion… (The list goes on)

…Things are a bit outnumbered.
(1) (2) (3)

School uniforms should be mandatory.

Agreed, however, the uniform should be unisex and allow different accessories so the students can still express themselves. This way men aren't accused of staring at women's bodies, women aren't limited more than men, and trans people aren't forced to wear clothing that'll make them feel more dysphoric. Everyone's treated equally, and no one has to feel oppressed. (If that makes any sense)

Aaaand my opinions on the current debate:

1: Abstinence is not ridiculous to teach at all.
While yes, people should be fully educated on sex and its consequences, they should also be taught to avoid abusing it for "pleasure". Not just because babies, but because it's a powerful thing that can easily destroy people's lives if used incorrectly. Also, the main purpose of it is, indeed, babies, so "because babies" isn't that bad of an argument…

When has the argument "you shouldn't do something because I said so/because it's bad" EVER worked with teenagers?

…
I don't know what idiot teenagers you may have met, but almost all the ones I know are extremely obedient and that argument really does work if it's coming from a parent/teacher and has decent enough reasoning behind it.

2: I don't really understand how public schools work but maybe part of the class would be co-ed and another part would be separate? I know that if I was in a room containing boys while learning about reproduction, I'd be way too embarrassed to ask the teachers questions no matter how important they may be…

Yeah but you're also homeschooled, if you went to public schools you'd understand that 'don't do this' doesn't work.

https://owlcation.com/academia/100-Debate-Topics
Some really good lists here

Found some from that article that I have strong opinions on:
(Note: You guys can continue your debate, I started researching and writing this before the current topic started…)
(Another note: yes, this was the essay thing I thought I lost, it's quite disappointing in length considering how long it took and how much I scrapped but I'm so glad I don't have to re-write it that I don't care)

Companies should be required to hire 50% male and 50% female employees.

Or, maybe, they should hire people based on their capabilities instead of just their sex? Seriously, if you're hiring a woman over a man simply because she's female and you want more female workers, that's actual sexism and should not be encouraged.

Religion does more harm than good.

The only ways I've seen religion harm people is by dividing us (which, as religious tolerance and freedom continue to increase, isn't as much of an issue anymore, but still exists) and encouraging discrimination/violence (mainly towards LGBT people). Sure, those are serious problems, but when compared to the good religion has caused, such as… takes a deep breath

• Helping the homeless, founding charities, educating children, comforting those who mourn, assisting the disabled, teaching good morals, helping the environment, vaccinating people, feeding the poor, building homes, caring for orphans, bringing clean water to those without, helping the mentally ill, uniting people, pushing for equality/empowering women, caring for the elderly, creating beautiful works of art/architecture, fighting stereotypes, providing jobs, combating disease, bringing love and support to victims of abuse/violence, treating illness, helping pregnant teens, fighting against animal abuse, combating slavery, showing hospitality towards those in need, raising awareness of multiple issues including poverty and mental illness, marrying couples, advancing society, encouraging love and compassion… (The list goes on)

…Things are a bit outnumbered.
(1) (2) (3)

School uniforms should be mandatory.

Agreed, however, the uniform should be unisex and allow different accessories so the students can still express themselves. This way men aren't accused of staring at women's bodies, women aren't limited more than men, and trans people aren't forced to wear clothing that'll make them feel more dysphoric. Everyone's treated equally, and no one has to feel oppressed. (If that makes any sense)

---

Aaaand my opinions on the current debate:

1: Abstinence is not ridiculous to teach at all.
While yes, people should be fully educated on sex and its consequences, they should also be taught to avoid abusing it for "pleasure". Not just because babies, but because it's a powerful thing that can easily destroy people's lives if used incorrectly. Also, the main purpose of it is, indeed, babies, so "because babies" isn't that bad of an argument…

When has the argument "you shouldn't do something because I said so/because it's bad" EVER worked with teenagers?

…
I don't know what idiot teenagers you may have met, but almost all the ones I know are extremely obedient and that argument really does work if it's coming from a parent/teacher and has decent enough reasoning behind it.

2: I don't really understand how public schools work but maybe part of the class would be co-ed and another part would be separate? I know that if I was in a room containing boys while learning about reproduction, I'd be way too embarrassed to ask the teachers questions no matter how important they may be…

This is just a sort of general response to your whole message.

1) Hiring based off of sex: Anyone with this mindset is destined for one of two things: An unhappy and unmotivated (not to mention inefficient) workplace, or complete business failure. As you said, hiring should be based off of ability, but also it should be off of work ethic (which sort of ties in) and honesty. (If you want me to get into that with concrete examples, I will.) If you try to base your worker population off of something like sex, you are being sexist, and will have an ineffective workplace filled with what may be many workers unfit for the career.

2) The religion thing: I'm not going to comment on whether religion has done more good or bad because I don't have record of every single solitary thing in existence religion has done, so it cannot be scaled. I could list all of the negative, or even horrible things done in the name of some deity, but you already mentioned that people commit said atrocities when they are divided and ignorant, often in an ironical way to their teachings. In which case, I shall not go there. However one thing I will say is that religion itself cannot be coded as good or evil. It's the contents that cross into different areas of the grey zone of morality as seen by humanity, and how a person uses it when justifying a certain cause, as well as what that cause is.

3) School uniforms: First things first. Who's going to pay for these? I really doubt that the school in question would pay for a student's uniform, and some students (and yes, I am including the parents in this situation too) cannot pay for the uniform. It is one thing to charge for a football jersey or some other example of such. It is a person's choice to play a sport, so it's their choice to buy a uniform based on this, however the uniform is a different story. It is a legal requirement to have some form of primary education from grades Kindergarten - HS Senior. Whether this be public school, homeschool, or continuation; from what I am aware of, it is something you have to do until you are 16 with exceptions of course. This means unless you are homeschooled, you have to wear one of these (unless it's a school by school thing, which I am assuming this is for the whole nation in question). If you are enrolled in homeschooling, it's fine and dandy. If you can afford that. I have been through an independent study program and we had to buy our own textbooks and those things are expensive at times. Yes, there are probably programs that don't do this, and exceptions, but most people might have this financial problem. Homeschooling is not an escape if you cannot buy the uniform because you are certain not to be able to buy the books. Homeschool is not an out, and now they have to buy uniforms, which again, most people who are too poor to buy them, could stay that way. Essentially, what I am saying is a lot of people might be forced into the uniforms due to being forced into a school that has them, then not being a able to pay when the school offers no help.
But anyway, on top of that financial possiblity mentioned above, there is the matter of the modern dress code. If we take out the stupid things like punishing girls for young guys being pervs and thing like that, you could have a decent system. At most, just have it where people come with something looking halfway formal, then there are countless options for personalization, taking care of dysphoria, etc. compared to a mildly customizable uniform.

The other subject i.e. Sex Ed)

1) Abstinence doesn't teach why you should not have sexual intercourse for "pleasure" (if that is what the programs are trying to make people avoid), it teaches you: Don't have sex. And yes, sex can break a relationship if some irresponsible is done, but that goes more into the idea of non-abstinence based sex ed. A person can have sex, but they should do so responsibly.

2) Oh, trust me. I have heard stupidity like that at my highschool too, but as you said, some teachers had a good reason behind why to not have sex. That can be taught well the other way too, but nonetheless one of the main problems about abstinence programs is quite a few have the "Don't do it because we said so" (or something just as unconvincing) approach. If you offer no reason to your argument, it falls flat. Beyond this, I don't know if humans are hardwired to do it or what, but most people (especially around their teenage years) rebel in a spiteful sense, and will break rules because the rules exist. A couple social experiments have been done on this (I'll see if I can find a link), but when a rule exists, people can be tempted to break the rule just because it is there.

3) You are you and you have the right to have an opinion. I can understand if you are awkward. Nonetheless though, for me, I don't really think anyone should be embarrassed by what is essentially Chapter Whatever of a biology class. Everyone can and should know about their bodies, and they should not feel shame for wanting to know more.

I’m not completely against school uniforms. If you’re attending a private school and uniforms are mandatory then it’s your or your parents decision to pay for it, but the uniforms should not be gender specific. I, however, would hate being forced to wear a uniform in public school. I can dress the way I want and express myself the way I want to.

I’m not completely against school uniforms. If you’re attending a private school and uniforms are mandatory then it’s your or your parents decision to pay for it, but the uniforms should not be gender specific. I, however, would hate being forced to wear a uniform in public school. I can dress the way I want and express myself the way I want to.

Yes, this goes with my example above. It is a choice to go to a private school if you can afford it, and there they can enforce more specific rules like this. However in a public school setting, where most people go out of necessity, a simple dress code with rules that are relaxed, but still enforced, but not on unfair grounds of ruling would be an adequate system

Uniforms are bad, uncomfortable, and take away any sense of individuality a student might have. Their whole schedule is dictated by officials and administrators, when they eat, when they can go home, even when they’re allowed to talk. School controls like, 71% of my life, not including homework . If they try to make me wear a uniform, that’s just less I can be me, and more my personality is reduced to just “student.”
sorry if this makes no sense, I just woke up and I can’t think.

Yeah but you're also homeschooled, if you went to public schools you'd understand that 'don't do this' doesn't work.

Well the reasons should be explained and the problem is solved. Saying "don't do it" is not the only way abstinence can be taught.

I say that uniforms are bad. I personally went to a public school that had a dress code, and it didn't really do anything but make it hard to tell who was who in the sea of whites and navy blue. If anything, it was worse because other students wouldn't judge you for what you were wearing, but how expensive it was. Also, you can never get me into a uniform again. It took away my sense of individuality, and I'm not letting that happen to me again.

Dress codes are okay, especially looser ones, in my opinion. But a uniform? Stab me instead.

I'm not sure a public school should have a dress code. It's in the rights of a private school, but I don't see why the public school can.

As someone who's been in multiple different homeschool groups, I'm familiar with how awful, uncomfortable, and boring uniforms are to wear. However, I've noticed from my few experiences with them that there's often much less complaining when everyone wears the same thing compared to dress codes, where unless you're permitted to walk into school completely naked, nothing, and I mean nothing is considered good enough for people to "freely express themselves". So in order to avoid the whole "ERMAHGERD, MY TEACHERS ARE ALL SEXIST TRANSPHOBIC MYSOGINISTIC BIGOTS WHO HATE THE HUMAN BODY AND WANT TO SHAME YOUNG WOMEN FOR WHO THEY ARE" drama, we could make it so women's clothing options are just as limited as men's, you wear one outfit that's safe, affordable, and casual, even if it's a bit annoying. Maybe there would be some customization with the shirt colors or pants length or something, but the moment people make lists of things you can't wear, everyone's suddenly furious. At least from my experiences.

Although I might change my mind, I can see why people dislike uniforms and wouldn't want to be stuck with them, but I'm also really sick of hearing girls complain because "the men only have 4 rules regarding outfits, while we have 27". Of course the girls have more rules, our bodies are made differently, plus you don't normally see men walking around in crop tops or booty shorts while complaining about the teachers not allowing their bra straps to show. Women's clothing is far more immodest, has far more things to get caught/torn/tripped over, and therefore has far more rules, for safety purposes. (Although I do agree the whole "you shouldn't wear this because it's distracting to guys" argument is extremely stupid and should die a painful death)

_{Honestly, everyone should just wear t-shirts and cargo shorts everywhere. They're comfy, simple, cheap, customizable, formal enough for a school setting, and usually don't look like garbage.}

And with the other topic, as Dom said, there are other ways to teach abstinence than just "Don't do this, it's bad", I think we can all agree that way of teaching is flawed.

I think the idea of uniforms is quite interesting actually. But not for public schools that already have issues with budgeting and curriculum. Education should be focused on teaching students, not what they wear. I mean seriously once you graduate high school, literally no one cares what you wear to school. I wore pajamas almost everyday to college. I new a guy that cosplayed every thursday and friday as new characters. So the fact that is still an issue people are fighting over is so silly.
Although, I must put in that girls should not be shamed for their clothing and/or taken out of class because of yoga pants or because her jeans are too tight. (I wore pants in school that were so tight that they looked painted on and never got into trouble) Or punishing girls for a bra strap showing when that is not really something that can be helped. It's ridiculous. Not to mention that most boys in schools don't give a rats ass what girl's wear anyway, and are hardly 'distracted'. Boys in high school are distracted by every little thing, their like puppies with severe ADD (no offence guys, but it's true) Dress codes should be unisex, not boys v girls.

Firstly, sex doesn't have a 'main purpose' anymore since people have all types of ways that it is 'used' (odd word choice but okay). Sex is a natural occurrence that has been going on for millions of years. Why should it not be taught that people can have sex for pleasure? Dolphins and monkeys have sex for pleasure are you going to teach them not to have sex?

Trust me when I say teenagers are idiots (no offence) I went to a school with over 1000 of them just in my graduating class, and let me tell you there was an idiot issue every day of someone, somewhere breaking the rules. Teenagers have an 'immortality' complex where they think nothing applies to them and they are king of the world. It's not exactly a bad thing, but the more rules you place on them the more they will want to break them. Think of all the teenagers that drink and smoke underage. Teens run on spite, so teaching in a way that further puts them down isn't smart. Which is why abstinence, a religious teaching, should not be taught.

People need the truth of things not the sugar coated, 'ew it's groooooooss' bullshit teaching. Serious subjects should be taught by a professional and seriously. Health is a serious subject that impacts everyone's lives and even our government.

Firstly, sex doesn't have a 'main purpose' anymore since people have all types of ways that it is 'used' (odd word choice but okay). Sex is a natural occurrence that has been going on for millions of years. Why should it not be taught that people can have sex for pleasure? Dolphins and monkeys have sex for pleasure are you going to teach them not to have sex?

Trust me when I say teenagers are idiots (no offence) I went to a school with over 1000 of them just in my graduating class, and let me tell you there was an idiot issue every day of someone, somewhere breaking the rules. Teenagers have an 'immortality' complex where they think nothing applies to them and they are king of the world. It's not exactly a bad thing, but the more rules you place on them the more they will want to break them. Think of all the teenagers that drink and smoke underage. Teens run on spite, so teaching in a way that further puts them down isn't smart. Which is why abstinence, a religious teaching, should not be taught.

Well the purpose is biological. But of course it is used for pleasure. And people should be more responsible than common animals.

They are. But they are (I hope) smart enough to understand sex if it is taught well. And the possibilities of sex without responsibility.

Humans are common animals. We are not at the top of the food chain.

That's what I am proposing, sex and health education to be taught well….?

Humans are common animals. We are not at the top of the food chain.

That's what I am proposing, sex and health education to be taught well….?

We are mentally superior to all the others.

And correct me if I am wrong, but you seem to think that abstinence can not be taught well.

Firstly, sex doesn't have a 'main purpose' anymore since people have all types of ways that it is 'used' (odd word choice but okay).

Alright, this one's mostly on me. I wasn't taking into account not all humans (or other animals) have sex for purely purposes of reproduction. In fact some people don't even have sexual attraction to begin with (i.e. Asexuals). However it is true that reproduction isn't the only "usage". (You're right that is weird terminology.)

Humans are common animals. We are not at the top of the food chain.

That's what I am proposing, sex and health education to be taught well….?

We are mentally superior to all the others.

And correct me if I am wrong, but you seem to think that abstinence can not be taught well.

Just because humans have larger and more complex brain structures compared to other animals does not mean we are free from carnal desires found in a majority of animals. We are animals nonetheless, different animals, but not above animals in the sense we are not. Separating humans and every other animal into two classes just because we are smarter than some is a biased, egotistical view of our species. Eris gave the example of the dolphin, which is an animal that is dominant to most of the animal kingdom in it's own respect, but we never give it special treatment or assign it to the "smarter than everything else" or "dolphins, because they are smart" groups because that is not how animals are actually grouped.

^^What he said.