Debate. Debate. Debate.

All the folks who don’t like it should move in together and petition to make a small portion their own land maybe.

@Althalosian-is-the-father

Also. Debate topic. Is it wrong to be a beggar on purpose? I don’t mean the average one, but the guys that would rather beg than look for work.

The people who do that do it because they make more money sitting on the street than working a job because 1. Applying or jobs is expensive when you don't have anything and 2. Minimum wage is really low and that speaks volumes more about the government than it does the person. So yes but no? No but yes? In conclusion, the government sucks and the idea that people who don't work are lazy is a capitalist lie made up by corporations so they can keep exploiting labor and homeless and jobless people deserve empathy, understanding, and systemic change to actually help them because the middle class is far closer to them than they are the people who have been fucking over everyone else since capitalism began

@Althalosian-is-the-father

The people who do that do it because they make more money sitting on the street than working a job because

True.

Applying or jobs is expensive when you don't have anything and

Nah. It’s pretty easy actually. Just kind of time consuming. Except with C19 libraries are shut down so… that can make things more difficult. But most people still have paper ones.

Minimum wage is really low and that speaks volumes more about the government than it does the person.

I may not be an economics major, but… Idk why is the min wage raise = poorer world thing wrong?

So yes but no? No but yes?

Well yes, but actually no.

~~In conclusion, the government sucks~~

U right.

~~and the idea that people who don't work are lazy is a capitalist lie made up by corporations so they can keep exploiting labor~~

Explain more of this. Bc obviously we need labor or world go kaput. Also we’ll die if we don’t work.

~~and homeless and jobless people deserve empathy, understanding, and systemic change to actually help them~~

U Right

~~because the middle class is far closer to them than they are the people who have been fucking over everyone else since capitalism began~~

Yeah.

@croccin-champagne

just because something is easy for you doesn't mean it is for other people. people without regular transport and people with disabilities have a harder time getting jobs and keeping jobs, and if you're losing jobs too often because your employers didn't want to accommodate your disabilities, then its hard to find places willing to hire you with a paper record that doesn't explain what's up.

i think in general its a super grey area and depends on the person's situation and economic status to even get close to determining whether or not its okay.

like okay, for example. not begging exactly, but you know that like five percent statistic of people who abuse food stamps and government financial aid? my ex's family are like that. they are lazy, though, and i know that for a fact. my mom was telling me, once, about how my ex's mom had told her that those gift giving organizations(you know, for low income families around christmas) 'dont check with each other on who signed up, so you can sign up for like twelve different ones and theyll never know'. mind you, they would do this for each kid, on top of buying each kid like nearly a grand's worth of presents. so they were taking these free gifts that could have gone to some kid who's parents couldn't afford more than a couple dollar store items, and giving them to their kids who they had already bought a bunch of gifts for. highlighting the fact that they didn't need them.

they had financial aid and did this for christmas presents, while also spending at least a couple thousand on decorations for every holiday and like 5'000 in fireworks. thats what they spent on fireworks this last fourth of july. they buy those giant 500 dollar inflatable decorations to put up around their homes(their house, grandmother's house, and around the trailer park they *run). for halloween, christmas, easter, everything. and they get new stuff every single year, and spend loads on other insanely unnecessary things.

mind you, i'm the kind of person who tells people to mind their business when they complain about someone poor buying a nice new tv, because you cant police other's spending and also poor people deserve nice things when they can afford them, shockingly.

but i can say, without a doubt, that this family is not poor. at all. they are far from struggling, and they don't care about the fact that they're literally the reason so many people complain about how financial aid and food stamps are 'just for lazy people'.

on top of that, those are resources that could be going elsewhere, to people who need them. tbh i find that abhorrent.

however, they're like, again a 5% statistic if im remembering the number right. maybe work is easier to find, but is it as easy to keep for some people? maybe its easier for them to 'beg', maybe 'begging' is just a temporary solution when they could, technically, work. maybe you dont know enough about someone's situation to make that judgement call and its a case to case basis thing anyway.

if that makes any sense

@croccin-champagne

minimum wage/the average yearly income hasn't changed enough to keep up with the rapidly rising cost of living, if that answers your question for pickle. i cant remember the numbers, but for example: average income has barely raised since like the '70s, but the cost of a loaf of bread in the same time has tripled

@Becfromthedead

There are so many factors that go into ability to work, like disability, mental illness, base resources, etc, that are hard to account for.
I used to volunteer at a resource center for homeless people, and one of their things was that they help provide technology and other resources to assist with job applications. Which honestly? That's not an easy process for everybody, especially if you've hit rock bottom.
Not to mention after several months of unsuccessfully looking for work, one might just give up. And maybe they have better luck begging than working their ass off for minimum wage.
People living off disability checks also is an incredibly complicated situation to be in, and they may be financially better off on those checks than getting a job that pays just a little too much for them to get any more benefits.
Now, people who have more than enough money and choose to mooch off others, fuck em, but just because some people abuse programs doesn't mean we should look at people with more scrutiny because that could cut off some people who really need it.
Also an example of that capitalist lie is the welfare queen, which is a (usually black) single woman who has a bunch of kids, doesn't work, and lives solely off government money and doesn't do shit. This has really strong origins in racist stereotypes, and honestly? A lot of anti-poor stereotypes are also racist.
Way I look at it,most people have a reason for some amount of exploiting the system. And the few that don't? Not great, but we can afford to look the other way to help those who actually need it desperately.

@Pickles

Nah. It’s pretty easy actually. Just kind of time consuming. Except with C19 libraries are shut down so… that can make things more difficult. But most people still have paper ones.

You need: clean clothes, a bathroom and soap and stuff to make sure you're presentable and don't smell, a phone and a phone plan so you have service, a computer, wifi access, a printer, enough money to be able to go into job interviews and still be able to eat, and reliable transportation. There's a lot of stuff that goes into it that you don't really think about when you have easy access to all of it
And idk where you applied to but I've never inquired about a place where they didn't say "apply online" and give me a condescending look

I may not be an economics major, but… Idk why is the min wage raise = poorer world thing wrong?

Why…would it be right? You realize that the people own stuff like Amazon and Walmart are billionaires? The only reason they don't want to raise minimum wage is it's like maybe a million dollars or so less for them to leech out of their workers. Or, prices for stuff get raised a couple cents, maybe a dollar. You can't raise them more than that because companies compete to have the lowest prices
The only reason minimum wage isn't livable is because of billionaires who want to exploit their workers for every last cent. And conservatives refuse to educate themselves, listen to experts, or think cognitively for two minutes
~~Also you can feed and house over 3,000 families of four for a billion dollars so that's fun. There's absolutely no reason for homeless people to exist~~

Deleted user

compromise war is going to happen, someone has to back down, or someone has to start talking compromises.

It’s technically already happened with the war. I do wish that there was a compromise for this situation, but with how things are going so far I don’t see much of a peaceful solution to this.
You can never appease to everyone with the same tree (or however the saying goes.) and as you said in the end there will be a portion that doesn’t want to join with Russia. I can say for sure unless something miracle shows up I probably won’t leave this minority.

All the folks who don’t like it should move in together and petition to make a small portion their own land maybe.

As much as I appreciate this it is a bit more difficult than that, but I did see the mention of none of you being (no offense, but in general, not just this site; people don’t tend to be good at solving international conflict, even in reality) experts on any of these topics so I’ll drop it for now seeing as we’ve moved onto a new topic.

@Althalosian-is-the-father

minimum wage/the average yearly income hasn't changed enough to keep up with the rapidly rising cost of living, if that answers your question for pickle. i cant remember the numbers, but for example: average income has barely raised since like the '70s, but the cost of a loaf of bread in the same time has tripled

I suppose I’ll have to give this more thought. If y’all aren’t making me a ~Radical Leftist~.

A lot of anti-poor stereotypes are also racist.

I’m sure you’re right, Bec.

You need: clean clothes, a bathroom and soap and stuff to make sure you're presentable and don't smell, a phone and a phone plan so you have service, a computer, wifi access, a printer, enough money to be able to go into job interviews and still be able to eat, and reliable transportation. There's a lot of stuff that goes into it that you don't really think about when you have easy access to all of it

I stand corrected. Though I can imagine a couple ways out of some of those.

@croccin-champagne

pickle is right. i went to like ten different businesses to ask about how to apply and only one gave me an actual paper application. and lmao yeah, they act like you're stupid for coming in in person. only one was nice about telling me it was online, the rest were like 'we only do that online' with that weird look

@Becfromthedead

^^^same actually.
Honestly, I only have my current job because my boss already knew me from another professional setting. Trying to get a minimum wage summer job was damn near impossible. Adults in my family kept telling me to call or visit in person, but the employers always got irritated.

@Althalosian-is-the-father

‘Parently I’m just lucky ig.

@The-N-U-T-Cracker

I’ve been seeing this debate a lot recently in light of the Sia/Autism Speaks situation, so I figured I’d pop it here

Should neurotypical people write neurodivergent main/reoccurring characters?
if so should they at least have a co-writer with the disability, or do you think proper research can be enough?

@croccin-champagne

as someone neurodivergent but not autistic, i can only speak for my own things, but yeah. I think its great, actually. but only if you properly research and definitely get help and info straight from people with the disabilities you're writing. also sia's shit goes so far beyond that.

but on her thing, it doesn't matter what her actual intentions were. D'Angelo Wallace put it really well, but what matters was the obvious after effect it had, and what the effect the final product had.

but yeah overall I believe as long as you are properly sourcing your research, not trying to speak for disabled people, and being careful, everyone should write more neurodivergent character because everyone deserves to see themselves in characters.

@Becfromthedead

^^^ You need to do research beyond a simple Google search. I mean extensive research, talking to people with experience, having sensitivity readers, etc.
Neurotypical people should totally include a diverse cast, and shouldn't exclude certain people just because they're "hard to write." Maybe neurotypicals just need to do better.

@Moxie

I think if its something like a film, that's collaborative in nature, absolutely, you need autistic voices in that writer's room. A book, maybe not so much (however if I'm writing characters, I include marginalized groups, but I don't write marginalized experiences. Like one of my main characters is philipino and ace, but I'm not gonna make the whole thing a story about his identity. As a white allo person, that just makes no sense.)

If we're talking about Sia specifically, I really don't think the problem everyone has in this situation was that she didn't have any autistics writers. It's how she claimed to be writing a story for autistic people, while just creating more bad autistic representation, and how she handled the situation when people called her out on this. Which I guess does stem back to the fact that she didn't have any autistic people in her creative team

@Althalosian-is-the-father

Heard Leslie Odom jr was in that abd terrible which nakes me sad.

@HighPockets

Autistic person here. It depends.
I'm honestly kind of disgusted by the whole Sia thing. I haven't watched the movie, but I've seen multiple people (neurotypical and autistic) review it. I don't think that there's anything inherently wrong with a neurotypical person writing a story about neurodivergent people, or even playing one. For example, I think that Eddie Redmayne does a really good job playing Newt Scamander, and he's said that he played him as autistic.
But Sia's movie did Not do that. She did so little research that she didn't even know that Autism Speaks was "controversial" (which is a very, very generous way to put "fucking repulsive piece of shit") organization. I've heard mixed things on if she actually hired an autistic actor for the role; some people say she intended for Music to be played by Maddie Ziegler the whole time and lied about the autistic actress in the first place. But being generous and saying she even existed, the story is that she left the film because the sets and lights and such were so overwhelming.
And then Sia replaced her with a neurotypical actress.
Instead of making the set of her autism movie more comfortable for autistic people to be on.
It's like hiring an actress who's in a wheelchair for a film about disabled people but not doing shit backstage so she can have room to move and then hiring an able-bodied actress instead of adding ramps.
And then when autistic actors basically said "hey, I'll do the film if you want even though this is short-notice", Sia ignored them and when an autistic actor on Twitter pointed this out to her, Sia's response was "maybe you're just not a good actor". Keep it classy, hon.
Sia's movie also promotes "restraint" as a way to help autistic people during a meltdown, which is honestly vile. Restraining an autistic person on the ground like they're fucking resisting arrest and holding them there until they're "calm" is a very harmful maneuver that has killed autistic people, and Sia's movie uses it twice on Music without anyone pointing out this harm. She said that she'd take the scenes out or add a warning about how it's unsafe and shouldn't be done, but she did neither (although I think now she has added a warning, but it's too little too late).
I'm not really someone who's shaken easily, but the "summer days" dance sequence where Sia has Maddie Ziegler do this caricature of autistic people honestly made me feel sick to my stomach. Ziegler herself apparently broke down crying on set and said she felt like she was making fun of autistic people and Sia reassured her that she wasn't, but Sia was wrong again lmao. It didn't feel like representation, it felt like a mockery. (To be clear, I'm not blaming Maddie, I'm blaming Sia for thinking any of this was a good idea).
Also there's blackface in one song, from what I can tell?

@HighPockets

So anyways the tl;dr is yes, you can write about whoever you want, but please do your fucking research and don't act like an egomaniac when people say "this is bad, actually"

@HighPockets