Thank you guys. On a debate topic, do you guys believe all religions are valid religions? Why or why not?
All religions and all cultures are valid. It is how that part of the world developed, so why should it not be valid.
Also, most religions from the ethnic parts of the world are thousands of years older than modern religions, so why should they be considered any less?
I would have to disagree. If the parents truly believe that in order to save their child from hell they must teach them about their religion, we should probably let them. If you don’t teach the child anything, they most likely won’t try to form their own opinions, they’ll just end up being Atheists/Agnostic for the rest of their lives.
My parents are Catholic. I’m Catholic. Yes, they taught me to be this way, but that doesn’t mean these aren’t my true beliefs. I’ve seen what I believe to be evidence that there is, indeed, a god watching over us, a life after death, and a way to be truly happy. I wouldn’t have seen these things if no one ever taught me, and I’m extremely thankful that I was raised this way.
(I'm going to add some points on to this)
Very few people understand how hard it is on the parents to have their children convert away from their beliefs. The parents truly think that this choice will not only take away the child's life but their happiness as well, plus if the child then dies, they won't have the same comforting thought that "they're in a better place now" because, according to their beliefs, they aren't.
No one wants that sort of pain, which is why parents are so strict when it comes to this stuff. They just want their children to live their best lives, and we shouldn't try to stop them.
Since a lot of people here have converted away from their parent's beliefs, I should probably give you some advice…
Please, if your mother (for example) tries to re-convert you, don't be rude or angry about it. Smile and pretend to listen, even if you have no intentions of ever going back. She's probably upset and getting angry is just going to make things worse. Alright? Glad we got that over with.
(Note: There's nothing wrong with not believing the same things your parents do, and I'm not trying to say otherwise. In fact, if it wasn't for my great grandmother stepping away from her parent's beliefs, we could still be a family of actual racists. Change is good, but don't be a jerk about it.)
That's a good point. History is full of people who've changed their views away from the norm, and it got them to a better place.
I think it is more respectful to accept that people have different beliefs instead of trying to force them back into a life that they chose to leave. Which is exactly what I told my parents when I left Catholicism and they tried to bring me back into it. They had to understand that it was my choice at the end of the day and just 'smiling and pretending to listen' is extremely damaging to our relationship and just plain rude.
It's not a fleeting thought that makes people turn from the religion of their parents. Most of the time is years of uncomfortable feelings of not belonging or feeling like a fraud. Years of research and study over what may be wrong with us, when there is really nothing. Years of figuring out that it's okay to not be a christian or a jewish or a catholic. Most of us don't even find a new religion for many years after that even. For me, I attended multiple religious gatherings of jewish, islamic, and wiccan origin before finding something that made me feel at home. It's rough on the person to go through something like this. Seriously mentally draining, but in the end most feel better for it.
Converting out shouldn't be as shamed as it is.
What I meant by that was don't snap about it or go on a dramatic rant about how "parents don't understand", it's just going to make things go downhill. Be respectful because, for all you may know, you might be the one who doesn't understand. Try and see things from the parent's point of view instead of trying to make them feel bad for caring.
Also, I agree, converting out shouldn't be shamed, but it also shouldn't be encouraged, if that makes any sense. People should do their research, make up their own minds, and go with what feels right for them. However, they also shouldn't get angry if someone else tries to convert them.
(Am I making any sense?)
Oof… I'm not going to comment on what you just said because I do not want to be snarffed at for 'being rude'.
…Is there a serious point I'm missing? I won't consider you rude if what I said was completely off. I have almost no experience with converting out or teaching children about my religion, so I wouldn't doubt it if I'm wrong somewhere.
I agree with Ella. They genuinely believe that they're right and they want what's best for you, even though it may not seem like it. Although you leaving their religion is not a reason for them to hate you. They'll still love you. At least they should because they're your parents and if they don't then no offense, they're crappy parents
Sorry, kinda went off thinking about other conversations I've had with my friends
I just think what you said is narrow minded.
Why would someone who knows that the religion of their parents is not for them, sit and listen to their parents try to force them back into a life they don't want? Why would someone not understand their own feelings about religion, but their parents know everything? It's respectful for parents to understand that their children are their own people that make their own choices in life.
Converting out should be acknowledged as an option and encouraged for those who do not feel at home within the religion of their family. Religions are not a prison or a cult, you should not be forced to stay if you don't feel comfortable with it. It's a choice of the heart. Who is to say that the deity is not trying to guide them down a different path? Individuality and freedom of religion should be highly encouraged.
People also should have the right to get angry is someone tries to convert them. It's not right to push another religion on someone who is not wanting of it. If someone is happily Jewish and a Christian tries to convince them that their religion is wrong, or that the true word is another religion that is 'better', they should be able to get angry. It's disrespectful to an entire culture.
I'm Catholic. I was raised Catholic, and have been volunteering at my church for a while now. The only thing is, I'm not sure I believe what I'm teaching, and I want to become Wiccan. That's not sitting well with my parents, who have control over me due to my age. Advice, anyone?
I'm willing to talk pm with you if you want.
I just think what you said is narrow minded.
Why would someone who knows that the religion of their parents is not for them, sit and listen to their parents try to force them back into a life they don't want? (Because it's respectful, and as Nutella said, they are literally trying to do what is best for you. And getting really angry instead of trying to understand the other person will only cause damage to all involved.) Why would someone not understand their own feelings about religion, but their parents know everything? It's respectful for parents to understand that their children are their own people that make their own choices in life. (True. But parents have a hard time with that with their relationship to the child. It's not perfect. But you can only change yourself to make things better, not someone else.)
Converting out should be acknowledged as an option and encouraged (Um, no. Why would that exist? Most religions think that they have the path to eternal salvation. They would think leaving equals the possibility of damnation. Allowed, sure. Encouraged? That's insane.)for those who do not feel at home within the religion of their family. Religions are not a prison or a cult, you should not be forced to stay if you don't feel comfortable with it. It's a choice of the heart. (You should choose the most important things based off your feelings instead of with your brain? Not very logical. Feelings can shift with the wind.) Who is to say that the deity is not trying to guide them down a different path? Individuality and freedom of religion should be highly encouraged.
People also should have the right to get angry is someone tries to convert them. It's not right to push another religion on someone who is not wanting of it. (Or you can take it into account that they obviously care about you enough to try to save your soul and be grateful.) If someone is happily Jewish and a Christian tries to convince them that their religion is wrong, or that the true word is another religion that is 'better', they should be able to get angry. It's disrespectful to an entire culture. (Is it though? some things are better than others. It is not inherently disrespectful to say that about religion. It might be wrong, and one might take offence. But that is not the same thing as attacking an entire culture.)
(Because it's respectful, and as Nutella said, they are literally trying to do what is best for you. And getting really angry instead of trying to understand the other person will only cause damage to all involved.)
What is respectful is people not butting into the decisions of others. Why can't the parents understand that their child is making this decision for themselves? Why can't they be respectful and honor that decision instead of shoving their ideals into the child's face? I told my parents about my decision to leave Catholicism after many discussions about how I felt about it and they never once tried to force me back into it. They respected that it wasn't for me to follow that path. That is respectful.
True. But parents have a hard time with that with their relationship to the child. It's not perfect. But you can only change yourself to make things better, not someone else.
But it shouldn't be like that. It should not be "what ever the parent says goes" as the child gets older. That's disrespectful. Parents should listen and understand that they created an individual, not a hive mind. By this logic, why would anyone try to convert others in the first place?
Um, no. Why would that exist? Most religions think that they have the path to eternal salvation. They would think leaving equals the possibility of damnation. Allowed, sure. Encouraged? That's insane.
For those who do not feel at home within the religion of their family. You left out the most important part of my statement. For those that are wildly uncomfortable in a Catholic church and do not share the beliefs of the congregation, should be allowed and encouraged to find the right path for themselves. There is no peace and love when you feel captured and repressed. There is no salvation if you do not have belief in what you are hearing.
You should choose the most important things based off your feelings instead of with your brain? Not very logical. Feelings can shift with the wind.
Belief is not based on logic though. Nor is faith or even religion itself. It's all based on what you feel is God's/Allah/Buddha/Gaia/Triple Goddess/etc. love or power. You feel their guidance. No one has ever really bounced from religion to religion on a whim, and if they have it's because most want to experience culture (Like I did.) or are curious and on a path to finding their true belief. Have you ever met someone who woke one day, with zero thought or deliberation, and decided that they were going to be Hindi instead of christian? No. People don't decide religion like the clothes they wear. It's a deep, deep decision that changes lives.
Or you can take it into account that they obviously care about you enough to try to save your soul and be grateful.
Why would I be grateful for someone shoving their belief's at me? If I truly wanted to convert I would go seek out the answers I needed.
Is it though? some things are better than others. It is not inherently disrespectful to say that about religion. It might be wrong, and one might take offence. But that is not the same thing as attacking an entire culture.
Saying that Christianity is better than Judaism is 100% wrong and a complete disrespect of a culture that is thousands of years old. Saying that someone's beliefs are lesser is rude and racist even. It is attacking a culture because is religion not the basis of culture? Being Jewish is not just going to synagogue, it is a way of life in the things they eat and celebrate, their ideals about family and government. Being Islamic is the same. Being Buddhist is equally so. Saying that any religion is better than another is just not okay. Things in life need to be equal for humanity to thrive. Constantly saying that one thing is better than the others is how racism has lasted so long in this world and that is saddening.
Alright so someone mentioned this chat had gotten on the topic of religion, and I like having friendly debates about it. Now, personally I stand with Eris on the basic fact that all religions are valid, however, there are limitations. For example, the traditional harming of other people in the name of religion automatically goes too far. As someone who was initially raised Christian, I found it strange that my mom was so avid on it being the best way when there were other people practicing other religions. Why wouldn’t everyone do it if it was “the best?” And on the topic of children being “unable to form their own opinions without being taught a religion,” I find that debatable. Initially, someone had to have come up with that religion, though this may be debatable by a religious person since almost all religions have a founding deity of some sort. But I feel like the idea that a child can’t form an opinion is rather incorrect. Rather, religious education is the key to forming an opinion, though some may have to educate themselves. I personally often had to read about other religions in secret, mostly masking it with a fascination with ancient cultures (such as the Inca and their religion, destroyed in the name of Catholicism), because my Christian relatives often believed “educating” myself on other religions past a certain age was a sign I was “deviating” and “becoming a heretic.” Sorry for the long post, I like religious convos
If I'm looking at it from my perspective, and if someone tried to convert me away from a religion I believe in, then I would probably feel a bit disrespected. After the fact though, I'd probably realize the person didn't mean me any harm, but just wanted to help. It's all about how you look at it.
Exactly. Trying to convert someone is alright if it’s just informational at its base, but repeatedly trying to convert someone to anything isn’t something people appreciate
I feel like a lot of people are skipping past a very important point here, and that's that, for many religions, leaving the faith means you are, indeed, going to die and find yourself in a pit of eternal torment, so of course those people are going to try and convert you. They're worried about you and would never want you to endure that sort of suffering, so we should probably be respectful and not yell at them for trying to do the right thing.
(Okay, I'm going to be brutally honest here with my opinions: If you're the type of person to yell "F YOU" at people who try and convert you to their faith, you're an a–hat. I'm sorry but that's just flat out disrespectful, it's not that hard to be a decent freaking human being.)
If you found a cure for cancer, wouldn't you try and share it with as many people as possible?
How about a cure for depression, anxiety, or dysphoria? Wouldn't you try to use this knowledge to help others?
Well, that's exactly how these extremely religious people feel. They believe they've found a way to live forever in a state of eternal happiness, so why do we get so angry when they try and share their knowledge? They care about you and just want to help you, that shouldn't make them bad people.
Of course the parents don't want their children to randomly pick and choose any religion their heart feels before they're old enough to know what they're doing, they truly believe that the wrong decision could cost the child their life. Also, let's be real here: if we gave younger children complete freedom to choose a religion, they'd most likely base their decisions on Harry Potter, Veggie Tales, or something similar. They're little children, their decisions are going to be stupid, so if their parents don't try to guide them, we're going to end up with a bunch of people who don't know blep about what they're doing and won't learn anything because the moment someone tries to educate them, it's considered to be "forcing religion down their throats". Older children (11-17), on the other hand, might be able to make a decent decision by themselves, but until that age, they should probably be educated by, none other than, their parents. (or guardians, or teachers, whatever adult is responsible for them)
When someone I know tries to convert me, it honestly makes me smile. Knowing that someone out there cares enough about me to go against what society says and try to "save" me from whatever "evils" I may believe is kinda adorable, not gonna lie. And even when they use terrible logic to do so, it's still pretty cute in my opinion, like a wholesome cringe kind of thing.
(Unless it's done in a flat out disrespectful manner, as this guy does in every single blog post. That's just annoying and not sweet/adorable in any way. I really hope his blog is satire, and if not, he needs to shut the flip up. Even the things I agree with are worded so badly that it hurts… Help me, I'm losing brain cells… Also, I'm fully aware that I'm guilty of trying to convert people in flat out disrespectful manners. I've changed since then, please don't kill me)
Also, for some people (including me), their religion isn't just decided by their heart. While feelings do play a very important part of their beliefs, logic, miracles, science, theories, and facts also severely influence them. As I mentioned before, I've found what I believe to be proof that my religion is correct. This proof might not be enough for some people, and I'm aware that other religions have their "evidence" as well, but in my mind, this truly is the right one. Both my brain and heart have come to an agreement there and they've agreed for two years now. So yes, belief can, in a way, be based on logic (or at least, the individual's interpretation of logic).
I found it strange that my mom was so avid on it being the best way when there were other people practicing other religions. Why wouldn’t everyone do it if it was “the best?”
Because in her view, those people who don't do it are simply uneducated to the truth. She believes it's the best way because she's found what she believes to be evidence that it is, indeed, the true, best religion.
If climate change is a real thing that we need to acknowledge, why doesn't everyone believe in it?
Something can be true and people will still believe otherwise. Why? Because humanity is stupid. That's how she probably feels about her religion, it's the true religion, but humans are idiots and can't recognize it.
(NOTE: This is not my opinion, I'm just trying to imagine what her view may be based on my experiences and the knowledge given. I don't actually believe that everyone who disagrees with me is an idiot, so please don't take this the wrong way)
I don’t have a religion, I don’t need one, and I don’t really understand the whole thing. But as long as your religion is respectful and not all up in my face, I am 100% not going to be an ass about it
I don’t have a religion, I don’t need one, and I don’t really understand the whole thing. But as long as your religion is respectful and not all up in my face, I am 100% not going to be an ass about it
That's good. Thank you for being respectful.
Yeah, but the whole basis of religion is founded upon a faith in some sort of cosmic deity or principle of some kind. And in the case of a religion being based around a particular deity, it’s reasonable to be skeptical. Christianity, for example, at its very beginning was founded upon the belief that god actively took part in speaking to people and directing them in various ways. Nowadays, the only proof of this is vague records. Not even the Bible is a completely trustworthy historical document anymore, as it’s been translated and retranslated millions of times, and in some cases manipulated by those translating it. But the existence of multiple monotheistic religions, even without hard evidence, do provide a sort of historical record on their own right. However, this only proves that there was something or someone at some point who was responsible for godly acts, or acts perceived as godly by a Neolithic people. The same thing that happened with some Native American tribes where they worshipped conquistadors that taught them certain things such as new farming techniques may have happened to an ancient people who then went on to be the first basis of monotheistic religion, likely in the Persian areas, as the three monotheistic religions that are the most similar to each other (Judaism, Catholicism (later Christianity), and the Muslim faiths) stemmed from that particular area. However, this is the only real historical lead that either religion may have any basis in truth. Otherwise, there is no specific truth to the existence of a heaven or hell, only a hope that there is something more for ye individual after the biological death of cells. That’s all religion is at heart. A base hope given form by something someone may have fabricated, or something simply lost in translation. Belief is the basis of all faith, as you can’t have one without the other. But as far as I’m concerned, any deity-centric faith could be true in various aspects or parts, we just don’t have the historical and scientific fact to back any particular religion as of now
I don’t have a religion, I don’t need one, and I don’t really understand the whole thing. But as long as your religion is respectful and not all up in my face, I am 100% not going to be an ass about it
I definitely agree. You shouldn’t have a religion only to shove it down people’s throats. It goes against the general good will of many religions in basic principle
I don't have much time left before my WiFi turns off, but I'm just going to say that not all of this evidence lies in the Bible alone.
https://churchpop.com/2015/06/28/5-extraordinary-eucharistic-miracles-with-pictures/ -
https://www.historicmysteries.com/saint-januarius/
https://dowym.com/voices/5-incredible-eucharistic-miracles-from-the-last-25-years/
http://www.futurerevealed.com/christian/catholic/fatima-short-summary.htm
https://catholicsay.com/top10-astonishing-miracles-of-the-catholic-church/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm9BGxpf0hU -
https://www.ranker.com/list/unexplained-catholic-miracles/jodi-smith
https://www.magiscenter.com/contemporary-scientifically-validated-miracles-associated-with-blessed-mary-saints-and-the-holy-eucharist-2/
http://www.sacredheartofjesus.ca/Naju/naju.htm
(I know I only used Catholic examples, it's because I don't know where to find the examples from other religions and I didn't want to risk accidentally spreading false evidence. If anyone with other beliefs wants to add on to this with clues from other religions, that would be appreciated) (Also, I'm aware some of the articles contain multiple examples, some of which overlap. I didn't have the time to read each individual thing or search a different link for each one, and I apologize for that.)
While yes, there is no concrete, 100% solid proof that any religion is correct, there are multiple clues and pieces of evidence pointing towards certain beliefs. If there weren't any of these clues, why would people try and convert others in the first place? Science and logic do play a part in many people's beliefs, which is why they're often so convinced that it's all true.
I mean, I definitely respect that, but in my experience many miracles are often misconstrued, either purposely or accidentally. And many do have a scientific explanation, though I’ll be honest there are some without. In that case, until fact has completely proven those are true miracles, saying something with a logical explanation is one makes no sense to me, as it’s a denial of fact. Though I may be a tad biased, as I’ve only once been exposed to the supposedly “good” parts of Catholicism and Christianity, and like to think that many religions may have truthful aspects, not one true religion.
Miracles cannot be held as proof that certain religions are true. There are thousands of unexplained phenomena all around the globe happening everyday including Geotechnical occurrences, strange sounds coming from far reaches of space, etc. Just because these cannot be explained yet doesn't mean they won't be.
Like Octane said: many miracles are often misconstrued, either purposely or accidentally. It's human nature to make a mistake. The more modern the world becomes the more tangible proof humanity needs that there is something out there.
Also, as much as I respect the writings of religions, we can hardly take the Bible or anything as 100% fact of what occurred during the time of Jesus or the messiah of other religions because they were written many years after the deaths of said people. The bible in this case was constructed by a group of men for men. Each story filled with allegories to guide people to live a certain way. Beautiful writings, but we can all agree that they were not written by or for God/Deity. But for humanities comfort and control.