forum Debate. Debate. Debate.

Started March 14, 2019 by Deleted user

tune

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. . . I agree??
Sorry, did you think I didn't say that somewhere?

oh on my screen yours is after mine, idk

Oh okay

well it's natural to feel nervous around someone who is holding what you grew up being taught is a weapon. but if you can't trust your teacher with a gun, then why is your teacher the right person to teach you anything?

First of all, what do you mean "grew up being taught is a weapon"? Guns are literally weapons. This isn't some propaganda "oh the government only wants you to think they're weapons" kind of a thing. They are weapons. Let's get that out of the way right now. So yeah, I would be nervous if the people I was around all day had a weapon.
Second of all, trusting someone to teach you information and trusting someone to not abuse the use of a weapon they have been given are two totally different things. They are not related.
For teachers to have weapons there would have to be a lot more tests in place to become a teacher. Do you know how difficult it already is to become a teacher nowadays? Do you know how many people quit when they are almost done with the process because it is simply too much? If a requirement to be a teacher had to be to get a gun, the number of teachers we have would drop significantly.

okay, in response to the first one. I don't often call guns weapons because literally anything can be a weapon. a machete, intended for clearing brush, can be used to kill someone. a brick, intended for building a house, can be used to murder someone. a rifle, intended for hunting wild animals and supplying food, can be used to take a human life.

in response to the second, I wouldn't want to learn calculus from someone who can't hold a knife without feeling an overwhelming and irresistible urge to stab the nearest human. would you?

Exactly. I get scared when I have to cook with knifes sometimes, when I’m not looking to hurt myself. I’m scared of that stuff. Also kids with mental disabilities like Autism and for my brother, CP(can’t spell it), kids like that are really sensitive to sharp objects and weapons. What if someone with autism found a gun? What if he hurt himself or someone? People with CP and autism do not function like normal people, they think differently, sometimes their actions are not justified. A lot of public schools have these kids, some schools don’t accept you into a program unless you have more then one disability. I’m already scared, I know damn well my brother would be terrified as well. What about parents? Wouldn’t they get concerned that at any moment the teacher could shoot they’re own flesh and blood? Wouldn’t you be scared if your child attended a school where a teacher could kill them whenever? I sure would.
Just because It might decrease a problem, does not mean it will stop. People WILL continue and there is NOTHING we can do about it. Schools in my state HAVE POLICE OFFICERS ROAMING THE HALLWAYS TO PROTECT KIDS WHO OVER DOSE OR STOP SCHOOL SHOOTERS, I think that if every school can get police officers on campus to PROTECT students a lot of over doses in teens and school shootings would decrease.

But… Guns are used for killing things. That's how pretty much everyone uses them

okay I'll quote you on this part: 'It might decrease a problem' Is not acting at all going help more than trying?

As a high schooler who goes to a very big school, I do not want the teachers to be armed. Students could take the guns, teachers could leave them unsecured, a teacher could lose their temper. Hell, a student who's having a bad day could wrestle the gun from a teacher and kill students.

People WILL continue and there is NOTHING we can do about it. Schools in my state HAVE POLICE OFFICERS ROAMING THE HALLWAYS TO PROTECT KIDS WHO OVER DOSE OR STOP SCHOOL SHOOTERS, I think that if every school can get police officers on campus to PROTECT students a lot of over doses in teens and school shootings would decrease.

Yeah, my school also has present police. The teachers are being paid (not enough though) to teach, not to essentially be a cop who teaches algebra.

As someone coming from a developing country where we have..tensions with neighbouring countries and especially with the Ukrainian crisis happening right next to my birth country I think I’d be against putting guns in school.

I’m gonna be honest, I don’t really like guns. They’re loud and I remember in one of the older towns I lived in when I was young, having trouble going to sleep because of gunfire in the far distance. I know in school it would be different, but as others have said it’s kind of something that can set people off, panic them, etc, and that’s not something I like.

I just feel that school should be a safer learning environment, and if it’s not it should be improved. Putting guns is not the answer to that since a lot of people out there may not be with the idea.

okay I'll quote you on this part: 'It might decrease a problem' Is not acting at all going help more than trying?

Okay, I brought up a point where trained police officers WHO ACTUALLY TRAINED TO RESTRAIN ATTACKERS FROM KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE to be there. We don’t need to resort to killing people, Police officers will take care of that. For schools that have one, most likely got it because there was multiple attempts of a school shooting or drug deals.

As a high schooler who goes to a very big school, I do not want the teachers to be armed. Students could take the guns, teachers could leave them unsecured, a teacher could lose their temper. Hell, a student who's having a bad day could wrestle the gun from a teacher and kill students.

I'll admit that a student could take a gun, but about the other three:
why does the teacher not have his/her firearm holstered and secured?
why is there a teacher who would willingly commit voluntary manslaughter over an annoyance?
why isn't the teacher trained to not let a literal child take a something as significant as that?

okay I'll quote you on this part: 'It might decrease a problem' Is not acting at all going help more than trying?

Okay, I brought up a point where trained police officers WHO ACTUALLY TRAINED TO RESTRAIN ATTACKERS FROM KILLING INNOCENT PEOPLE to be there. We don’t need to resort to killing people, Police officers will take care of that. For schools that have one, most likely got it because there was multiple attempts of a school shooting or drug deals.

okay, you've convinced me that a police officer on campus is a good idea. well met

For a lot of kids, guns may be a trigger for them. Sending kids into panic attacks in the middle of school does not create a healthy learning environment, and would make many kids unable to learn.

hang on: is there anyone here who thinks that making it illegal to own guns is a valid solution?
not me

For a lot of kids, guns may be a trigger for them. Sending kids into panic attacks in the middle of school does not create a healthy learning environment, and would make many kids unable to learn.

true, but it's not like they can't see a gun that a police officer has

That's one of the tenth amendments, it's not going anywhere

For a lot of kids, guns may be a trigger for them. Sending kids into panic attacks in the middle of school does not create a healthy learning environment, and would make many kids unable to learn.

true, but it's not like they can't see a gun that a police officer has

Yeah but most teenagers aren't around cops all day. Most teenagers are around teachers all day.

No. Having guns shouldn’t be illegal. People need to hunt animals for food, if we take that away we could starve people. You actually need a license for hunting to own one, or be a police officer, or some other authority figure. Taking guns away from people can most likely ruin a hunters way of life.

For a lot of kids, guns may be a trigger for them. Sending kids into panic attacks in the middle of school does not create a healthy learning environment, and would make many kids unable to learn.

true, but it's not like they can't see a gun that a police officer has

Yeah but most teenagers aren't around cops all day. Most teenagers are around teachers all day.

I'm talking about the on-campus-police that some were pushing for

For a lot of kids, guns may be a trigger for them. Sending kids into panic attacks in the middle of school does not create a healthy learning environment, and would make many kids unable to learn.

true, but it's not like they can't see a gun that a police officer has

Yeah but most teenagers aren't around cops all day. Most teenagers are around teachers all day.

I'm talking about the on-campus-police that some were pushing for. do not try to patronize me.

Even when there are police on campus, you're still around teachers more.
And I wasn't trying to patronize you man, chill out and don't hide your words.

For a lot of kids, guns may be a trigger for them. Sending kids into panic attacks in the middle of school does not create a healthy learning environment, and would make many kids unable to learn.

true, but it's not like they can't see a gun that a police officer has

Yeah but most teenagers aren't around cops all day. Most teenagers are around teachers all day.

I'm talking about the on-campus-police that some were pushing for. do not try to patronize me.

Even when there are police on campus, you're still around teachers more.
And I wasn't trying to patronize you man, chill out and don't hide your words.

but around cops nonetheless

(it's probably just anxiety, but that sounded patronizing. I lost my temper I'm sorry)

Actually, not particularly. We have police officers at my school and I hardly ever see them. And when I do, I'm more noticing the uniform and you know, their face.

give teachers guns so they can prevent school shootings

Hard disagree. I'm Canadian as well, so maybe I'm biased, but school shootings are just an offshoot of a bigger problem which is gun control (or lack of).

Let's say we do let teachers have guns, and lets say the number of school shootings decrease. Ok, that's not a bad thing. But now lets google the deadliest mass shootings in America. Here's our top 10:

1. Route 91 Harvest music festival, Las Vegas, October 2, 2017: 59 killed, 526 injured.
2. Pulse, Orlando, Fla., June 2016: 49 killed and more than 50 injured.
3. Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, Va., April 2007: 32 killed and 17 injured on campus.
4. Sandy Hook Elementary School, Newtown, Conn., December 2012: 26 killed.
5. First Baptist Church, Sutherland Springs, Texas, November 2017: 26 killed.
6. Luby's Cafeteria, Killeen, Texas, October 1991: 23 killed.
7. Walmart, El Paso, Texas, August 3, 2019: At least 22 killed, 26 injured.
8. McDonald's, San Ysdiro, Calif., July 1984: 21 killed.
9. Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, Parkland, Fla., February 2018: 17 killed.
10. University of Texas Tower, Austin, Texas, August 1966: 16 killed around campus.

Only four of those ten are school shootings. So, maybe it would decrease school shootings but it wouldn't do anything about shootings from happening anywhere else. You have a total of 140 deaths between the top three and only one of them was on a school campus. That's crazy.

And lets say that you have teachers vetted to make sure they won't misuse it. Why not just extend that process to everyone else who wants to own a gun at that point? That's been working pretty well for us here in Canada (and a lot of other countries too).

As a high schooler who goes to a very big school, I do not want the teachers to be armed. Students could take the guns, teachers could leave them unsecured, a teacher could lose their temper. Hell, a student who's having a bad day could wrestle the gun from a teacher and kill students.

I'll admit that a student could take a gun, but about the other three:
why does the teacher not have his/her firearm holstered and secured?
why is there a teacher who would willingly commit voluntary manslaughter over an annoyance?
why isn't the teacher trained to not let a literal child take a something as significant as that?

Have…have you ever been to a public school?
People make mistakes, and teachers who are still getting used to being tasked with handling a gun could very easily leave it out. What if they're in a hurry to leave because it's late and they accidentally leave it out because THEY AREN'T USED TO TAKING CARE OF A GUN! What if they need to step out to take an urgent phone call, talk to another teacher or student, or go to the bathroom and leave it out because they're in a hurry?
Again, people are unpredictable. What if they're being threatened by a student (and yes, this happens, my vice principal was jumped by some students and his knee was broken)? What if they just finally snap?
Not all teachers are physically able to fight off a student (because they shouldn't fucking have to) and when you say 'literal child' you seem to be ignoring the fact that there are students who are in their late teens, or who are naturally bigger or work out. Would you really blame a small, scrawny adult for not being able to fight off a 6+ foot tall football player?

Actually, not particularly. We have police officers at my school and I hardly ever see them. And when I do, I'm more noticing the uniform and you know, their face.

Agreed, my school has cops and I know they're there, but I don't really see them because they stay in areas that are known for fights and/or drug deals.

And if it's safely away, how are they going to get it out quickly enough to defend themself and their students?