forum My problems with the Notebook.ai community

Started July 03, 2020 by @Reblod flag

tune

@Owen i love the community bits :')

personally, i've only been active here for a couple months and i've never been spoken down to or dismissed. that said, i mostly stick to the characters forum, but i really enjoy the characters forum and have never run into anyone there, new or old, who's acted inappropriately. i don't know any of you very well, but i respect a lot of you. i'm still a little confused, i guess, since i haven't seen any of this happen firsthand, but what are some specific, recent instances of toxicity? and (i'm asking the people who feel from firsthand experience that there's an issue) what can we do as individuals to foster a kind and welcoming culture?

Hi, I'm a new(er) user here but if I could make some points? This seems creepily similar to shit I see in fandom communities and I can gladly stay on the sidelines, but I feel like I could contribute some talking point if you guys are open to it. I don't want to cross any boundaries, obviously.

This currently is a place to learn from. Go right ahead hun. I would like to see this from your point of view.

@Owen i love the community bits :')

personally, i've only been active here for a couple months and i've never been spoken down to or dismissed. that said, i mostly stick to the characters forum, but i really enjoy the characters forum and have never run into anyone there, new or old, who's acted inappropriately. i don't know any of you very well, but i respect a lot of you. i'm still a little confused, i guess, since i haven't seen any of this happen firsthand, but what are some specific, recent instances of toxicity? and (i'm asking the people who feel from firsthand experience that there's an issue) what can we do as individuals to foster a kind and welcoming culture?

I can't remember who was involved or the subject of the matter since this happened awhile ago, but there was a major argument and most users (including me) took a side without actually knowing what happened in the first place. I'm sure more things have happened, but since it was a while back, my memory is a little fuzzy. I also think that some users just need to be open-minded, for example, there was this time I expressed that I didn't like something and then I was automatically pushed out as a friend. I mean it didn't hurt me personally, but people need to be open to new things and hearing people out. This isn't aimed towards anyone of course, but I think that this could be one of the steps we need to take in order to become a better community.

also, right quick before i leave
red, you're fine
i do remember you being angry all the time and i can see why. you were going through some rough shit, i even talked about it with you at one point because it was getting worse (the stuff about your mother, and im really sorry that happened). but yeah, hey dude, it's alrighty, im also sorry if i ever did anything to make you upset or feel bad- it was never my intention. i still consider you a good friend, even though i dont know if it's mutual. the important thing now is that it's all in the past and we should just strive to start anew.

Yeah, thank you. I'm trying to be good, for her sake at least. You haven't done anything I can remember that hurt me, otherwise, I'd probably still be holding that grudge lmao
I think of you as a good friend too, though it seems we've both changed a lot as individuals. I'd like to talk with you again, if that's alright

i guess, since i haven't seen any of this happen firsthand, but what are some specific, recent instances of toxicity? and (i'm asking the people who feel from firsthand experience that there's an issue) what can we do as individuals to foster a kind and welcoming culture?

Before I go into this, I just want to be clear that I'm not pointing fingers or aiming this at anyone specific.

One thing that I've personally noticed is that this site, to me, feels really cliquey at times. Obviously, yeah you're allowed to have friends but I feel like it kind of ties in with what Reblod mentioned in their original post regarding elitism:

Continuing, people only seem to care about a conversation if it’s with a well-known or admired individual. A lot of the time, users are outright ignored. Even if you try to join their conversation and especially if you try to start a new one. Either people are so absorbed in what they’re doing or they simply don’t care about other people who are trying to reach out.

The thing is, I'm not 100% certain that people realize that they're contributing to this. People have their groups of friends on this site (which is fine), and people are going to want to talk to their friends (again, nothing wrong with this). But as a result, posts by users from outside of that group get kind of lost in the shuffle and end up getting overlooked or ignored. It's not something that's being done out of any sort of malice, but I think some people just need to be aware that there's people who exist outside of their group of friends who want to and deserve to be heard.

Edit: I can't believe I made a post about ignoring people's posts only to have it ignored. That's not a good look.

This currently is a place to learn from. Go right ahead hun. I would like to see this from your point of view.

Hello! And thanks! As it turns out humans need food to survive and so I had to leave but hey! Anyways. Uh. Brain empty give me a minute to type out my thoughts on the subject.

(lmao alright. Just got some of us a lil worried)

(Yeah sorry!)

(Anyways I'd appreciate it you'd either edit that or just delete the response entirely so I don't have to have shame. I edited the original post lmao)

(There)

(I got a laugh out of it. The typo not you deleting everything)

(Sorry again but I'm glad I'm funny at least)

Okay so. I'm going to address purity culture and roleplaying because I had the most feelings about those, and the autism/semi-self-semi-professionally-diagnosed ADHD says we hyperfixate on that.

I want to say that this is not an attack on anyone here and I love and respect all y'all. Please be chill.

Leftist social circles (which I am part of, don't get me wrong. I'm not a Karen) tend to focus on who can get most woke points than anything. This makes any basic interaction a clout game and everyone just looking for an excuse to "call someone out". Don't get me wrong, I am fine with pointing out people's bullshit as long as we aren't doing it maliciously. I just think that people get some sort of rush from being right, having the correct opinion. "Think critically" nowadays amounts to "be on my side or else you've failed morally and in all other ways". Which is dumb. And also a thing I am majorly guilty of.

Notebook seems to have a mini-version of this, where innocent musings can be taken way out of proportion. Or maybe someone is being snippy and a bit of a dick, but instead of trying to reason with them people launch into an unwarranted attack mode.

Humans are primarily social creatures, which makes us incredibly emotional and not the most rational. This is why dialectics is so important and also so rarely used. We need to see the "both, and" of a situation. You can be isolated without being lonely, sort of a thing. There are multiple answers to even the simplest of questions.

And I get not wanting to interact with someone who is genuinely an ass. You DON'T HAVE TO. But you shouldnt make other people's opinions for them. My cousin is one of the most amazing people I've ever met, but he also was an abusive ass (I say was because he's gotten a lot better, we wouldn't be friends if he hadn't) to his wife and she's right in not wanting to be with him anymore even though he's changed. It's okay that she doesn't forgive him.

Sorry for the personal anecdote, I just hoped it could be useful in making my point.

And it's okay to want to interact with more experienced writers/just generally older members of the website. That's hella valid. But we shouldn't actively shun younger users, and while treating people like they're human beings is my top priority, we should make a little room for immature users so they can grow.

here's where I start acting a little nitpicky. I personally don't like doing most roleplaying with younger users because I like to deal with some heavier topics in my writing and I don't want to cause lasting trauma or go into a realm that they are objectively too young to deal with. That feels reasonable to me. However, I still do like seeing what the "young'uns" (God I'm getting old. I'm 19 but it feels like I'm 109 lmao) create and I want to kinda be the weird writing Auncle and just be as supportive as possible because guess what! People like to talk about their interests! People like being listened to! And I am a people! Blame it on the trauma or whatever but I feel like even if someone isn't going about it the right way, seeking attention isn't inherently bad. It's when someone starts being toxic do we come across the main problem.

If a user started hurling slurs at me I'd avoid them until I'd seen proof that they'd changed. But if they said something ignorant I'm not going to give them shit for it, just a light "hey, you're amazing but the thing you said wasn't" and move on.

But the main reason I don't like roleplaying with younger users is like this: you're asking a firefighter to perform the duties of a neurosurgeon. Both are important and valued, and both should be appreciated for what they do for the community, but the skills don't translate over even if the compassion does. I care about you guys, I do! But like 14 is pushing it a little for me and if I'm going to deal with anything even slightly NSFW I REQUIRE the person I'm RPing with to be 18 or older.

That being said, I think we should work as a community to be a bit more accommodating for those who are younger, struggle socially, or have some other thing that makes basic interactions harder. I already have to watch everything I say and do irl because of my queerness (which I'm very open about, causing judgement) and my neurodivergence (because Karens are eternal and ableism is everywhere) and I find that being online is the safest place for me to express myself so I don't like feeling judged.

TL;DR Notebook is great, and the community is too, but we need to make it a more safe and welcoming space for creative expression so the community can flourish. Also dialectics is cool, and I'm a bit of a psychiatry/psychology nerd.

Have a good day y'alls.

Holy shit

I wasn't expecting this kind of response. I don't know if I can read everything but, to address some things people have said.

• This is genuinely not directed towards anyone. I'm really bad at remembering names and such. I probably don't remember you
• Just because you haven't experienced anything addressed or in a different way, it doesn't mean no one has
• I think the fact that a lot of users are very young contributes to this problem…I can't remember what it's called by it's something like the stages of ethics throughout a person's life…I'll attach an image below
• This really blew up but please don't strengthen my point by acting in any particularly dicky way no matter your stance

Also, also …. it's not the fact that they're labelled a newbie. I'm not sheltered I'm aware that's a common term but my problem with it is, is how they're treated. There's this weird digital class divide going on.

Not all newbies are treated in a negative way. It's when they are annoying and just general asses that they get shunned. For instance, if someone is making transphobic, homophobic, acephobic, or other anti LGBTQ comments, other users are going to tell their friends and say "don't approach, don't talk to them, just ignore them and maybe they'll stop or go away". Or there's the other approach, and that's "call out the bullshit and make it stop". Honestly, some of the other users can go a little overboard in the way they do things; I'm not saying there are zero problems with this approach. But ignoring the problem sometimes doesn't make it go away. In addition, I have never, ever seen a, quote, "OG" user tell someone to delete their account. Granted, I've only been active on General Chat for about 7 months, and the Roleplay forums for exactly a year now. I have seen people delete their accounts over disputes, but in all honesty, it's an overreaction. For instance, I can remember one particular occasion where someone's profile pic had a swastika in it, and they were making very rude, bigoted comments. They were called out and asked to change the profile pic and stop making said comments. Instead, they deleted their account. Is this an ideal result? No, it isn't, and I do recognize that. However, i don't see how it is a bad thing that users are calling out those that they see as being bigoted and just acting in general like an asshole. The "OG"'s are not as close-minded and clique-ish as you seem to believe they are; it's like any other close friend group. It's just that they prefer each other's company due to shared history. Yes, it can be hard to get into their little group, but only because of the shared history and all the inside jokes that they have. I like to think I've been accepted into their group, and I know that at least a few of them like me. You know why? Because I gradually became part of the group. I didn't try to force myself in. I just joined conversations and I talked to them without being annoying, and I became part of the group. They tend to be suspicious of newbies simply because there have been so many bad experiences involving new people. I don't really know if my huge-ass paragraph even makes sense, because I'm tired and in pain right now, but here's my unwarranted opinion. Have fun, and my sincere apologies for the big-ass paragraph.

I haven't seen an og user tell someone to delete an account, but damn, I've seen multiple newer/ish users tell people to

I haven't seen an og user tell someone to delete an account, but damn, I've seen multiple newer/ish users tell people to

Okay yes, Crocs is right