forum My problems with the Notebook.ai community

Started July 03, 2020 by @Reblod flag

tune

I have a lot of problems with the Notebook.ai forum community.
I left for a while having been discouraged but came back because of how useful having a writing forum is for my own writing. But, the issues didn’t go away. Obviously. I’m sticking around still. Yes, this is potentially social suicide, at least in terms of this site, but hopefully I can open up a few eyes. If you hate me, fine. If you disagree with me, fine. I’m just stating my opinion here. Free speech and all that, right?

This isn’t directed at anyone in particular. This is a community effort. So, if you feel this is a personal attack then clearly you have your own issues that need working out. So I present to you a critique on the Notebook.ai community.

Toxicity. This community is toxic. That’s such a cliche term to use but it’s awfully fitting. Other problems I’ve observed include: elitism, misplaced righteousness, narrow-mindedness, and prejudice.

Elitism…
If you’ve been on for over two years then you’re considered an “og” user. If you’ve only been around for a few months you’re a “newbie”. The ogs are like the elite upper class of notebook. They’re considered to be the most trustworthy and reasonable for some reason. Newbies are seen as potentially problematic. I’ve seen the conversations about older users reminiscing about the good old days and going on about who’s an og user making it seem like it’s the most revered title available to you on this site. In these same conversations I’ve seen people make comments about the newbies coming in like it’s the 60’s and the “newbies” are immigrants. It’s interesting to see such a new age community acting so…archaic. Change happens. Growth is important. The amount of time you spend in a place doesn’t define who you are as a person. I’ve seen ogs who are rude and no one says anything about it. But god forbid if it’s your first week on the site and you say something snappy.
Continuing, people only seem to care about a conversation if it’s with a well-known or admired individual. A lot of the time, users are outright ignored. Even if you try to join their conversation and especially if you try to start a new one. Either people are so absorbed in what they’re doing or they simply don’t care about other people who are trying to reach out.

Righteousness and narrow-mindedness…
I’m not denying that notebook is a good place for minorities to feel welcome. The people here are accepting and supportive…up until a point. If you behave in any way that can be considered outside the norm than people won’t like you. Maybe you’re autistic or maybe you don’t have the best English. And you know why I know this? It’s because I get that too. This isn’t about me but, all social interaction puts me off however I’m especially unwilling to bother with someone who isn’t thinking on a similar wave length to me. That sounds bad but I try, even when my social battery is dead because I know what it’s like to be ignored and disregarded. Which brings me to my next point.
Users here are so busy being ‘wholesome’ or ‘woke’ that they’re not self aware. Most people don’t even realise they’re being dicks. Probably because everyone is the same here. Like I said earlier, community effort.

Prejudice…
People on this site are so venomous. If you act out of line, or whatever is out of line in their eyes, they attack you relentlessly. They will chase you off the site. They will put you down, discourage you, and exclude you. This is, at least, from what I’ve seen. If you made a mistake in the past, maybe you were a bit of an asshole or maybe you pissed off a bunch of people, good luck getting out of that. Especially if you’re one of those people who don’t type in structurally sound English or are stereotypically childish (godmode in roleplays, questions and responses are either too forward or just odd in general, mary sue characters). Users on this site are so aggressive it’s ridiculous. They don’t care if they make a child cry or they berate someone to the extent that they delete their account. They just don’t care unless their self-righteousness kicks in and they suddenly need to “do the right thing”.

Look, I didn’t do this with any particular structure nor any real direction but I think it needs to be said. I don’t even think that I got everything I thought of originally. I’m just sick of the mindset here. The “sheeple” mindset that’s based off prejudice and toxicity. No one wants to admit they’re wrong.
Just…maybe if people were a little more self aware and a little less ignorant things would be better? I’m a pretty awful person in my humble opinion, but, I don’t actively try to make people’s lives miserable. That’s this community’s job. Which is bullshit.

I’m only doing this because this whole site is a wonderful idea and there are some decent people here. I’ve learned a lot in my time here and I’ve tried my best to share my knowledge and inspire people. I want people to improve and be better but sometimes, people don’t want to see the bad in themselves so they choose to ignore it and it spreads. Sometimes, it turns into this.

Anyway, enough of my senseless rambling. Yell at me, ignore me. Do whatever you want.

you know, i think you're completely right. i've been on this site for the last two years, but i got a new account because of reasons i will not mention. when things were still fresh with the whole hating on people/calling them out on the stupidest bullshit i would get really pissed but keep it to myself. i made a pm chat especially for that, for the people that felt left out and got jabbed at constantly. i mostly try to keep out of drama. i don't hate on people just because something happened with one or a few individual users- i go off of my own experience, and if they are a dick to me that's when i cut them off, but i don't make a huge deal out of it. if others are telling me a certain person is toxic and shouldn't be talked to im just gonna ignore them until i can see for myself. until then, they'll still be my friends and even then, some people fucking change and it's like no one cares about that, they just go off of that one mistake they made even if it's clear that they're truly sorry about it.
fast forward to now, i'm just used to it. people are gonna be shitty and nothing is gonna change if they don't want to.
yesterday i had a vent and this is what i wrote in my notebook (because obviously i'd probably get backlash if i actually had posted it on the venting chat.:

"…we're fucking humans for crying out loud, we make mistakes. i think it's stupid to "lose respect" just because one small thing happened. anyways, this reminds me why i hated some of the people on notebook for a long time because they're so quick to point fingers without knowing what the real reason behind everything is. i hate toxic people like that, that make everything into a huge problem. i wonder how they would feel if they were on that end of all the bullying- because that's what it essentially is from some instances that i've seen. having people ignore you and your friends turn on you. they clearly don't know how hard it is- what it's like, and it shows."

but uh yeah, @Reblod, i completely get where you're coming from dude
unfortunately, though, i don't really have a hope for anyone changing, most of the people i used to call friends left because of the same reason. i don't even know what im still doing here, but i'll also end up disappearing in a few month's time. maybe i'll get back on in a few years when everyone has left? who know? not me.
also, as Re said, i dont really care if you guys end up hating me, sure, i get really scared sometimes to say the wrong thing- to be an outcast again, but at this point? you guys are irrelevant to me. i'm only trying to impress the people who i think are decent- i only care about what those specific people think of me. i do talk to some of ya'll that i don't really like, but that's because even though some of ya'll scare the shit out of me, it doesn't mean that im gonna ignore ya'll and be a dick. idk though, i do mean no hate by this, it's just my own opinion.

I pretty much agree. I've seen people torn apart for the stupidest reasons. We could all learn to be more forgiving and tolerant on this site.

Thank you so much…
You put it to words.
I always feel scared speaking up cause these people are my friends, but as someone who’s witnessed so many people, people I admire and care about, have to delete their accounts because they can’t feel welcome here anymore-
It’s heartbreaking.
We need to change, and yes, I realize I’m part of the problem. I’ve been trying my best to improve myself, but it’s not enough. It’s going to take community efforts to make any real difference, and hopefully we’ll be able to make this place at least a bit more welcoming for the newer writers.

Free speech, right? I'd hate to be the first person to openly disagree with you, but I have some opinions on this as well, mainly regarding the Newbie v OG bits.

When someone is new to a game, community, hobby, you call them a 'newbie.' That's just how it is. It's not limited to just this site, so I don't get what your qualms with that are based on, but whatever. Allow me to put the Notebook Community into a real-life scenario so that maybe you can understand the other side of the story, instead of vaguely calling out the older users for being who they are, especially around the newer users.

Say you're living in a village full of people that you know, and they know you. Maybe some are your friends and some are acquaintances, and some you don't care for, but it's a general everyone-knows-everyone village. You're going along on your merry way, fetching the newspaper the newsboy threw at your face, when you suddenly see a new neighbor. You go to say hello and are greeted with slurs and hate right off the back, childish demeanor, and a general 'im a little shit' attitude. You're not going to want to interact with the new person. And when more and more like that move in and stir up shit, kicking over garbage cans, defacing houses with questionable graffiti, decapitating mailboxes, the people that have lived in that village for far longer than the newbies are going to be reclusive and stick to their own circles of friends. Now, granted, some of those new neighbors are great! But because of the recent wave of bad neighbors, the majority of the older neighbors are distrustful of all the new ones. That doesn't mean they don't test the waters with some if they aren't causing trouble, but it just means that they are skeptical when another house is built and new people move in.

Now imagine that you are having an argument, or even a good-natured conversation with your friends. How would you feel if some stranger, that you have never met before, suddenly came up to you and started butting in and stating their opinion on your conversation, despite not having the background knowledge of where it came from or what you're talking about? Personally, I'd be miffed and wouldn't want to talk to them, because I don't know them, and I already have a pretty low opinion of them. I also don't like people but you get my point.

The older users act the way they do because they've established a foothold in the community. They've made themselves known through their own means, not just by being on here for over two years. There are some users that haven't been on here that long and are considered "OGs" because of their notability. It's not a matter of time spent, but rather leaving an imprint on the community. And it's not fair on them to put a blanket of generalizations and accusations over every user that are older. No, they're not all alike. They might have similar interests and personality traits, but there's no way a genuine group of people would have the same personality. It's also unfair of you to generalize how they act. People act in different ways depending on who they are talking to, and what mood they are in. We are humans, we are flexible, our personalities and speech change because of so many different factors.

Of course they're going to want to talk to their friends more than the strangers shoving themselves into their conversations. Of course they're going to snap back when they're being disrespected. It's human nature. It doesn't mean they think they're better than everyone else.

This site has its flaws, just like any community. There are bad apples and there are good ones and there are ones that aren't quite either one just yet. There are reasons behind actions and feelings. Not everyone has to like everyone in order of this site to be up to your standards.

As for the village analogy. You want to know how I know that? It's because it's happening in my village, right now. The people who have established themselves in the community are known, they're the "OGs." They know each other, whether that be friends or enemies, but they know each other. As soon as new people moved in and started acting the way they did, which wasn't sitting well with the rest of the community, the "OGs" pulled away from them and did what they could to limit interaction.

I'll say it again: it's human nature. Telling people to change how they've always been isn't going to work. Perhaps try talking to the people that force the nasty out of the older users. There are reasons for actions, and there are emotions behind words. Stereotyping a group isn't going to get a good reaction out of the targeted group, especially when called names and covered with untrue generalizations.

dude, but just because we're human, it doesn't mean that we can't strive to be better people. i know some people who are just straight-up assholes. there is countless proof of some of you guys beating down on someone for no reason. it's not necessary. if you can't stand them to the point where you have to use verbal abuse, then just fucking ignore them, it's not that hard. and on your thing about the newbies, i dont think you get it. just because we have some of those coming in that troll others shouldn't mean that we just shun them all right off the bat. i haven't seen you around much in past few months, but clearly you haven't seen what's been going down.

"People act in different ways depending on who they are talking to, and what mood they are in. We are humans, we are flexible, our personalities and speech change because of so many different factors."

this. this line right here. i agree but also disagree at the same time. i too, find it hard to hold my tongue when talking to some people. i'm constantly in a bad mood and sometimes i wish i could just flip you all off. there was this one time where i had enough concerning miriam, and just lashed out. but you wanna know what? i fucking apologized. that the difference between some of you guys. you can't admit when you've done something wrong. ella and colorless and a few other people can vouch for me, that when i've been angry to the point where i've wanted to delete my account, i'd just vent in that one pm. and boy did i have things to say. but i didn't go around shoving people around and generally making them feel bad. you guys need to grow up. stop acting childish. you need to contain yourself. im a person with fucking bpd for crying out loud. this is much harder for me because sometimes i can't control what i say/do because im in the moment. but guess what? im working on that and so far i've gotten better.

i probably sound like a self-centered fuck and I know im also part of the problem, which is why i've considered leaving multiple times, but you guys need to learn what "self-control" is.
but yes, i agree with some points you made, though, i dont know how i feel about some of the others.

i haven't seen you around much in past few months, but clearly you haven't seen what's been going down.

I have been here and I'm actually curious about what you're talking about because I don't know?

1. I didn't say that we couldn't be better people, just that it's not fair to target one group and not the whole
2. I've already said that there are reasons for people lashing out. Just because you can't see public proof doesn't mean there isn't a reason. Granted, some people are dickwads, but my point still stands. Don't generalize the whole because of the few
3. I'm not going to repeat what I said about how they (and I) act around newbies, I'd just be a broken record at that point. All I'm going to say that is I've established that there are some that are good/decent and they're treated accordingly. You can't blame us for being hesitant because of numerous interactions that we'd rather avoid
4. You haven't seen me because I don't generally fling myself into other areas of the community where I don't believe I belong, but I have been here for roughly around a year so 🤷‍♀️

I'm defending my friends, and partially myself, so call me an ass if you will, I don't really care

Hey uh HVF beans, how about instead of silently whispering about this in your little self-contained safe space you build up the guts to say these things in the actual thread so you can get outside perspectives instead of calling everyone who disagrees with you names behind their backs. :)

I’m done being subtle with my opinions on this. When multiple older, respectable users have been claiming this place is toxic for nearly a year now, maybe, just maybe, there might be something wrong that we need to address.

And why don't you build up the guts to actually say what you think instead of passive agressively being awful to people who thought they were friends with you :)

HVF beans (…) calling everyone who disagrees with you names behind their backs.

Well that's disappointing.

i haven't seen you around much in past few months, but clearly you haven't seen what's been going down.

I have been here and I'm actually curious about what you're talking about because I don't know?

i wasn't talkin to you dude, that was addressed to @strangebird

@Reblod I too disagree with your argument, though I fear any reasons I may give will fall upon deaf ears. I know you explicitly said that no names were mentioned, but I have a feeling I fall under that "toxic" group category you're so keen against. So, if you truly wish to make a change for the better, to hold a civil conversation about understanding both sides, both of our rights and wrongs, and steps to take in order to satiate the needs of the other, I give you permission to PM me if you so desire.

i haven't seen you around much in past few months, but clearly you haven't seen what's been going down.

I have been here and I'm actually curious about what you're talking about because I don't know?

i wasn't talkin to you dude, that was addressed to @strangebird

I know, but none of us know what you're talking about.

(I’m just glad someone is finally addressing issues that a lot of people have been pondering over)

This happens every few months and every time people try to defend themselves and when someone gets too butthurt, they're villified further and blamed for someone leaving.

also, @ you guys that disagree, that's fine, i wasn't (and am not) trying to start a fight. i get that some of you guys feel a certain way and that's fine, we do too, the overall point i was trying to make was it wouldn't hurt to be a little nicer to people.
but hey, sorry if i said some things that didn't quite sit well with you. i get really passionate about these things and you bet your ass i will say something when it needs to be said. also, there is no excuse and i mean no excuse when someone says they wish a certain user was dead and that they wish them death and then laughed about it behind their backs. i get that are some reason to being an ass, but that is not one of them.
also, do not ask, because i will not address the person who said that. it would only bring in more conflict and that is something i dont want.

This can be a healthy conversation. I think it's good to adress these things. Make our peace.

Yes I suppose so. I’ve kinda just been hovering behind the scenes for a while, at one point I wasn’t afraid to voice my opinion, but lately I feel like I don’t have the respect from others to do so freely without feeling like I’m being attacked.
So I’ve been keeping things to myself, which isn’t good, but it’s better than the alternative shrugs

i haven't seen you around much in past few months, but clearly you haven't seen what's been going down.

I have been here and I'm actually curious about what you're talking about because I don't know?

i wasn't talkin to you dude, that was addressed to @strangebird

I know, but none of us know what you're talking about.

this hasn't been happening just now, it's been for the last year my guy. remember all the people that left due to stuff being said in the rudeness chat? some of the things said were distasteful and made a few users leave and i think you know who im talking about because you've been here long enough

also, @ you guys that disagree, that's fine, i wasn't (and am not) trying to start a fight. i get that some of you guys feel a certain way and that's fine, we do too, the overall point i was trying to make was it wouldn't hurt to be a little nicer to people.
but hey, sorry if i said some things that didn't quite sit well with you. i get really passionate about these things and you bet your ass i will say something when it needs to be said. also, there is no excuse and i mean no excuse when someone says they wish a certain user was dead and that they wish them death and then laughed about it behind their backs. i get that are some reason to being an ass, but that is not one of them.
also, do not ask, because i will not address the person who said that. it would only bring in more conflict and that is something i dont want.

We interrupt your regularly scheduled program for Pickles to be intensely curious

i haven't seen you around much in past few months, but clearly you haven't seen what's been going down.

I have been here and I'm actually curious about what you're talking about because I don't know?

i wasn't talkin to you dude, that was addressed to @strangebird

I know, but none of us know what you're talking about.

this hasn't been happening just now, it's been for the last year my guy. remember all the people that left due to stuff being said in the rudeness chat? some of the things said were distasteful and made a few users leave and i think you know who im talking about because you've been here long enough

Responding to every single post, especially if you weren't even there for what's being discussed, is extremely annoying and people are going to tell you. And if you can't handle people being rude to you, don't go to the rudeness chat.

i haven't seen you around much in past few months, but clearly you haven't seen what's been going down.

I have been here and I'm actually curious about what you're talking about because I don't know?

i wasn't talkin to you dude, that was addressed to @strangebird

I know, but none of us know what you're talking about.

this hasn't been happening just now, it's been for the last year my guy. remember all the people that left due to stuff being said in the rudeness chat? some of the things said were distasteful and made a few users leave and i think you know who im talking about because you've been here long enough

Responding to every single post, especially if you weren't even there for what's being discussed, is extremely annoying and people are going to tell you. And if you can't handle people being rude to you, don't go to the rudeness chat.

yeah, but thing is, i think there was a time where you guys @'d a new user and they weren't even talking in the chat in the first place. instead of letting the person ramble off on their own, you guys added gasoline to the fire that's why i tend to stay away, though, it seems to me that you guys just use the chat to chill out nowadays and i think that's pretty cool
some of you guys have changed a lot over the years and for the better and im definitely happy about that, but maybe if we could tone down the spiciness it would also be nice, but that's completely up to ya'll, just be mindful of what you say even if you are having a rough day, you never know what the other person could be going through as well

and a little disclaimer, i don't hate any of you, it's just the things that are said sometimes make me mad

also, @ you guys that disagree, that's fine, i wasn't (and am not) trying to start a fight. i get that some of you guys feel a certain way and that's fine, we do too, the overall point i was trying to make was it wouldn't hurt to be a little nicer to people.
but hey, sorry if i said some things that didn't quite sit well with you. i get really passionate about these things and you bet your ass i will say something when it needs to be said. also, there is no excuse and i mean no excuse when someone says they wish a certain user was dead and that they wish them death and then laughed about it behind their backs. i get that are some reason to being an ass, but that is not one of them.
also, do not ask, because i will not address the person who said that. it would only bring in more conflict and that is something i dont want.

We interrupt your regularly scheduled program for Pickles to be intensely curious

lmfao yeah, my jaw dropped when i read it, but that was years ago, i still hold a small grudge against the people who participated in the "hazing" but i've come to just forgive and forget about it

This is exactly what happens in the Community episode Paradigms of Human Memory.
To lighten the mood-