forum Le Corner of Eris
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@Althalosian-is-the-father book

But it’s not a kid yet
There’s no consciousness
At this point it’s basically less than uprooting a small plant
And even if it was a kid and it was its business, it’s not anyone else’s
If two percent of abortions are rape, then what’s the other 98%?
Btw sorry f I come off as aggressive I’m not

Thank you for being an awesome person.
Someone can be born and even grow up without consciousness. Does that make her not a person?

Deleted user

(embarrassed)

I mean Althalosian (can I call you Dominic? Dom?) is hitting me with some good points so my brain is stimulated.

@blue_topaz

You have such good arguments this is actually so fun
It doesn’t necessarily make them any less of a person if they don’t have a conscious, but if bearing them is putting both the child and the mother in danger, then aborting is the safest option

@Althalosian-is-the-father book

So would you say consciousness is a reasonable thing for determining if a human should be able to be killed? (That sounds rather harsh but… there it is.)
I say leave God out of it. I’m a religious person myself, but most people I would debate with don’t hold my views, so what I think about God don’t count for much in that argument.
Yeah I agree on the abortion/drug biz.
Maybe. But PP is super racist, along with the fact that many people who go into and come out of the abortion business are pretty twisted. (Margret Sanger, Kermit Gosnel, Josef Mengele to name a few.) Not to mention that the people in charge straight up lie about pretty much everything. They also give no counseling to the women after abortion even though there is a semi common mental disease that comes after abortion. And they have killed more then one person. (Not counting any kids.)

Trust me, darling, you couldn't offend me if you tried. I've had a hard life so say your harshness if you will. <3

-I would say that actually. Don't people pull the plug on their loved ones everyday if they are deemed "brain dead"? The most common thing people say in that situation is "It's an empty shell." or "(Name) isn't here anymore." Consciousness is a huge part of what it is to be alive. If you don't have one, it's not really life.
-I would generally leave religion out of it as well, but that is a very powerful card that prolifers use. I don't hate them for it. Not one bit! It's a smart strategy for people to stop and listen. But you must apply science to it as well. There is no way that a two cell organism as a "soul".
-Now I understand your argument about PP. Like all industries there can be people that are racist and those people end up on the news and slather hate all over a good company name (Starbucks/Chipotle/H&M whathaveyou) but as a teenage full blooded hispanic woman, I walked into a PP and received the best care that I ever have in my life. My doctor that I went to before that since I was a wee tike, couldn't even compare to the women (and man) that took care of me that day. Just because one or two or three head people where found out to be shitholes doesn't mean that the entire company is corrupt. (Trust me I worked under Donald Bren. The Irvine Company is seedy as hell, but the everyday people make it what it is.) You can't force someone into counselling without a court order, its unfortunate, but the truth. They do offer counseling services though, just because a lot of women don't take that opportunity doesn't mean that its not offered. Just like how pregnant women usually turn down services like that in a hospital after giving birth.
-The car industry has killed millions, and yet people still buy cars.

((Damn your're smart as hell. I'm enjoying the fuck out of this.))

On brain death. It doesn’t exist. The first time the term was used was a study (that lacked evidence and the scientific method) that defined it as “A Definition of Irreversible Coma”. It has been proven that people in a coma retain their personality and ability to understand. (Such as to hear and interpret speech)
But for PP it’s more than a few (recall the “sting videos”.)
I did not know they provided counseling. (Or that they provide good medical service. Food for thought. What medical things did you get from them?)
Do you know someone that used it? I am inclined to be sceptical as they have a habit of lying.
But car companies don’t let women bleed to death for five hours.

@blue_topaz

You have such good arguments this is actually so fun
It doesn’t necessarily make them any less of a person if they don’t have a conscious, but if bearing them is putting both the child and the mother in danger, then aborting is the safest option

@Althalosian-is-the-father book

You have such good arguments this is actually so fun
It doesn’t necessarily make them any less of a person if they don’t have a conscious, but if bearing them is putting both the child and the mother in danger, then aborting is the safest option

If it is for the saving the life of the mother, pro lifers would agree with it.

@Althalosian-is-the-father book

Then what exactly do they disagree with?
That sounded aggressive again I’m sorry

I get it. Everything over text has the chance of sounding wrong.
Any abortion except to save the life of the mother.
Also euthanasia.

Deleted user

On brain death. It doesn’t exist. The first time the term was used was a study (that lacked evidence and the scientific method) that defined it as “A Definition of Irreversible Coma”. It has been proven that people in a coma retain their personality and ability to understand. (Such as to hear and interpret speech)
But for PP it’s more than a few (recall the “sting videos”.)
I did not know they provided counseling. (Or that they provide good medical service. Food for thought. What medical things did you get from them?)
Do you know someone that used it? I am inclined to be sceptical as they have a habit of lying.
But car companies don’t let women bleed to death for five hours.

-The states of "coma" and "brain dead" are two verrrrrrrrrrry different things. A coma, yes, the person still has a form of conciousness. There is still brain activity, synapses fire, people can dream, hear, move, breathe etc. But brain dead? There are no 'waves' (if you will) that are active, no consciousness that directs the rest of the body to live. Without a consciousness there literally is no life.
-Just like there have been videos all over the internet of sweatshops making Versace and Nike. Or Secret recordings of politicians being dickholes (Ahem.) I recorded myself getting verbally abused by a boss I once had at starbucks. The things said to me would have made a nun faint. Every industry is plagued with instances of horrid situations. Im not saying that PP is the most amazing company ever to exist in the history of ever. They've made mistakes, just like every other company. Chipotle poisoned it's damn customers. But to rip apart a company that provides affordable care to many people that don't normally have access to it? That is a damn crime.
-I, myself, did not go in for an abortion, but for a rather different reason (that I won't go into much detail about) that actually saved my life. My cousin though, did have an abortion at a clinic and I accompanied her. We were there for several hours as the doctor sat and talked with her, answered every question she had about adoption and what the procedure would be like. She was never forced or mistreated in anyway. She was able to take the pill on her own time at her own pace. They show you a damn video for godssake. The next time we went in (a week later) the same doctor sat down with us again to discuss her feelings and what next steps would be. They offer prescriptions to all different kinds of contraception. They gave her the number to a local therapist and grief counselor. It was all there. Honestly? I was shook.
-Do I know someone that used what? Counselling in a hospital after birth? Totally. My own mother after my brother was born. My step mother refused it after my twin sisters were born. Its a free service and they're kinda naggy to be honest. (XD) They linger around the ward just waiting for a new mom to cry out for them.
-You're right. They don't. But they do mass produce parts that they know could break in the future and do nothing until a death makes it on the news. (Toyota) Cigarette companies keep making their products though they know that it is 100% a cause of lung cancer. Gun companies too.

@Althalosian-is-the-father book

On brain death. It doesn’t exist. The first time the term was used was a study (that lacked evidence and the scientific method) that defined it as “A Definition of Irreversible Coma”. It has been proven that people in a coma retain their personality and ability to understand. (Such as to hear and interpret speech)
But for PP it’s more than a few (recall the “sting videos”.)
I did not know they provided counseling. (Or that they provide good medical service. Food for thought. What medical things did you get from them?)
Do you know someone that used it? I am inclined to be sceptical as they have a habit of lying.
But car companies don’t let women bleed to death for five hours.

-The states of "coma" and "brain dead" are two verrrrrrrrrrry different things. A coma, yes, the person still has a form of conciousness. There is still brain activity, synapses fire, people can dream, hear, move, breathe etc. But brain dead? There are no 'waves' (if you will) that are active, no consciousness that directs the rest of the body to live. Without a consciousness there literally is no life.
-Just like there have been videos all over the internet of sweatshops making Versace and Nike. Or Secret recordings of politicians being dickholes (Ahem.) I recorded myself getting verbally abused by a boss I once had at starbucks. The things said to me would have made a nun faint. Every industry is plagued with instances of horrid situations. Im not saying that PP is the most amazing company ever to exist in the history of ever. They've made mistakes, just like every other company. Chipotle poisoned it's damn customers. But to rip apart a company that provides affordable care to many people that don't normally have access to it? That is a damn crime.
-I, myself, did not go in for an abortion, but for a rather different reason (that I won't go into much detail about) that actually saved my life. My cousin though, did have an abortion at a clinic and I accompanied her. We were there for several hours as the doctor sat and talked with her, answered every question she had about adoption and what the procedure would be like. She was never forced or mistreated in anyway. She was able to take the pill on her own time at her own pace. They show you a damn video for godssake. The next time we went in (a week later) the same doctor sat down with us again to discuss her feelings and what next steps would be. They offer prescriptions to all different kinds of contraception. They gave her the number to a local therapist and grief counselor. It was all there. Honestly? I was shook.
-Do I know someone that used what? Counselling in a hospital after birth? Totally. My own mother after my brother was born. My step mother refused it after my twin sisters were born. Its a free service and they're kinda naggy to be honest. (XD) They linger around the ward just waiting for a new mom to cry out for them.
-You're right. They don't. But they do mass produce parts that they know could break in the future and do nothing until a death makes it on the news. (Toyota) Cigarette companies keep making their products though they know that it is 100% a cause of lung cancer. Gun companies too.

I need to learn more about brain death it seems to be able to argue it so I’ll leave that there.
As I want every mind to be open when I debate, in order to avoid hypocrisy I must do the same. Therefore I am open to the possibility that PP does good things for people. I’m not going to just take your word for it; but it seems I should gain some first hand experience in order to understand better.
Just because all companies do it does not make it acceptable. And what about gun companies?
Though, we have gone on a bit of a tangent. The real question is; is abortion permissible?

@Althalosian-is-the-father book

As to the consciousness bit, there is/was (Idk if she’s still alive.) a girl who survived until at least eleven. But she had no brain power except the purely physical aspects (the parts that controlled breathing and heartbeat etc.). Would you classify her as not a person?

Deleted user

I need to learn more about brain death it seems to be able to argue it so I’ll leave that there.
As I want every mind to be open when I debate, in order to avoid hypocrisy I must do the same. Therefore I am open to the possibility that PP does good things for people. I’m not going to just take your word for it; but it seems I should gain some first hand experience in order to understand better.
Just because all companies do it does not make it acceptable. And what about gun companies?
Though, we have gone on a bit of a tangent. The real question is; is abortion permissible?

-Please don't take my word for it! I appreciate that you are making valid points. It is always necessary to gather your own evidence and opinions. I respect everyone enough that I wont shove my opinion down your throat. But just know that I'm going to argue the hell out of it until we reach a peaceful impasse. XD I'm a stubborn female.
-You're very right. It is not acceptable, but it is not smart to place blame on a single company because a few people have died when every industry has had similar results of their products. I was just saying that gun manufacturers fall into that category because they create a product that is dangerous and that they know kill people (and children) and yet they still do it.
-I do believe it is permissible. But only in the act of regulating it. It should not be the first choice for anyone unless life threatening. There should be qualifications and only be allowed during a certain time period.

Deleted user

As to the consciousness bit, there is/was (Idk if she’s still alive.) a girl who survived until at least eleven. But she had no brain power except the purely physical aspects (the parts that controlled breathing and heartbeat etc.). Would you classify her as not a person?

-I would believe her a person because there is still something there. Still a consciousness that is controlling her life and bodily functions. Now if she were unable to breath on her own etc., then there is no life there. People would be forcing a corpse to live. That's cruel. If machines are keeping someone alive by forcing their lungs to function…that person's consciousness is gone.

Deleted user

I missed a lot.
Fucking blackout.

welcome back to Eris' corner of "HOLY SHIT DEEP TALK MAN"

@Althalosian-is-the-father book

I need to learn more about brain death it seems to be able to argue it so I’ll leave that there.
As I want every mind to be open when I debate, in order to avoid hypocrisy I must do the same. Therefore I am open to the possibility that PP does good things for people. I’m not going to just take your word for it; but it seems I should gain some first hand experience in order to understand better.
Just because all companies do it does not make it acceptable. And what about gun companies?
Though, we have gone on a bit of a tangent. The real question is; is abortion permissible?

-Please don't take my word for it! I appreciate that you are making valid points. It is always necessary to gather your own evidence and opinions. I respect everyone enough that I wont shove my opinion down your throat. But just know that I'm going to argue the hell out of it until we reach a peaceful impasse. XD I'm a stubborn female.
-You're very right. It is not acceptable, but it is not smart to place blame on a single company because a few people have died when every industry has had similar results of their products. I was just saying that gun manufacturers fall into that category because they create a product that is dangerous and that they know kill people (and children) and yet they still do it.
-I do believe it is permissible. But only in the act of regulating it. It should not be the first choice for anyone unless life threatening. There should be qualifications and only be allowed during a certain time period.

Lol. I get that.
Yes, but guns are an American Right. And guns themselves don’t kill people. Only other people do.
What are your qualifications and times?

Deleted user

hmmmmmmmmmmm. Im going to be honest and admit that I havent put that much thought into it but I do think that psychological evaluations are needed (at least 3 sessions) to determine if the mother is truly sound of mind and can handle repercussions (if any) and perhaps help her go through the process of decision making. This can help deter mothers from aborting in favor of adoption. This can also help those who were raped seek out help and assist them in putting their abuser behind bars. I also think that abortions should only be allowed during the first trimester. That is 3 months to make a soild well informed decision and seek out the proper education and/or help.

I'm sure that there are a bunch of other things but these are the ones that stick out to me.

Deleted user

Plays The Phantom Of The Opera theme song on the piano in the corner