drama

k not anymore

True, true.
Trust me, nothing is more awkward than reading Treasure Hunters while your grandpa is reading a gritty high-stakes thriller by the same guy.
But if those aren't my MG comfort books I don't know what is lol

Since SJM and LB are publishing their Adult debuts soon, I wonder if others will do the same.

I'd love to see a gritty retelling of The Little Mermaid where she kills the prince to stay on land and maybe he haunts her or something?? Idk it sounds cool.

didn't leigh bardugo write something like this?

I think that New Adult needs to come back, but not as the sex-heavy-romance-only genre it was before. We need New Adult books about being in college, New Adult fantasy, New Adult sci-fi. So many books I've read blur between YA, be it the content or the age of the characters, and I think it would be really good!

I've seen NA treated so often as the 'YA-but-more-explicit' genre that I just want to slap someone in the face. NA does not exist because YA cannot handle sex. NA exists so authors can write for an age group that can deal with more mature, controversial topics and darker elements, and address things that college students/upper high schoolers go through exclusively.

I think that New Adult needs to come back, but not as the sex-heavy-romance-only genre it was before. We need New Adult books about being in college, New Adult fantasy, New Adult sci-fi. So many books I've read blur between YA, be it the content or the age of the characters, and I think it would be really good!

I've seen NA treated so often as the 'YA-but-more-explicit' genre that I just want to slap someone in the face. NA does not exist because YA cannot handle sex. NA exists so authors can write for an age group that can deal with more mature, controversial topics and darker elements, and address things that college students/upper high schoolers go through exclusively.

Exactly why we need NA to become a thing again. It gained a reputation as 'sexy college times' for a reason, and then died out. Most books that deal with darker elements (Six of Crows/Crooked Kingdom, THG trilogy, etc.) are shelved in YA.

I'd love to see a gritty retelling of The Little Mermaid where she kills the prince to stay on land and maybe he haunts her or something?? Idk it sounds cool.

didn't leigh bardugo write something like this?

Maybe? Was it in The Language Of Thorns? I haven't gotten a chance to pick that one up yet.

More villainy villains

I want more people that are Evil because they want to be evil not because they 'turned evil because something tragic happened to them.'

Acheron Hades.

My villain is evil because he's used to getting his way and doesn't know how to handle people telling him no. So when his court is disbanded (because there was shady shit going on), he freaks out and resolves to get revenge instead of doing the logical thing.
And since he's a prick, no one wants to marry him. He was in a political marriage, but neither he nor his wife like each other. Also they're both fae so they don't really view marriage the way we do, so it's not a big deal to either of them. He wants an heir so his court can always rule, but since fae women don't get The Big Pregnant easily, he kidnaps mortal women and turns them immortal because Immortal's genes are basically a blank slate and the kid will still have powers.

Same! My dude Neirym is an absolute bastard pretty much because he can do whatever he wants and no one can stop him.

So how would we divide up YA vs NA?
Sexual content, language, violence, intensity?
I'm interested to hear your thoughts!

YA should never have explicit sex or other such scenes (such as nudity). But other things should be allowed.
Probably limit the Shits and Fucks but besides that whatever I suppose.
Violence should be allowed unless it's really graphic.
By intensity what do you mean?

I feel like no actual sex beyond fade-to-black and maybe emotional/nongraphic sex, if handled well. As for nudity, I think that non-sexual nudity should be allowed (such as Katniss having to be naked during her makeover, Harry opening the egg in the tub, etc.) but not like a strip tease or nudity that's just there for eye candy.
Maybe put a limit on swearing, but then again it's probably not worse than what we hear at school.'
Unless someone is being like…skinned or burned alive, violence should be fine. Unless it's super graphic and gratuitous/'torture porn' violence.
I feel like as for intensity, teens are stronger than they are given credit for when it comes to reading. They can handle intense themes and stuff. Isn't that why we have classics are required reading?

Oh yeah I agree with you on the nudity. It's a little odd to say but you just don't see innocent nudity in books these days. It completely slipped my mind.
Yeah my friend Luke called me a fucking bitch the other day and my perfect (it's a joke but also almost true) Catholic friend nearly threw my water bottle at his head.
Same. My dad has sworn once that I know of and it was when we were having a really serious discussion with no one else around. But when we watched Maze Runner he was like Well if you're being chased by monsters that is definitely the time for it.
Oh yes. I think mentally challenging themes are really great and should not be restricted to older range. For instance I read Pushcart War to my siblings and they got the message. Not as much as I did (I actually got angry at one point. It's a commentary on war, propaganda, and government in a book for kids.) but they were able to understand some of the main points.

So many books aimed for younger kids have themes and morals that they pick up on, like fables and fairy tales and such, so I don't see why people are like 'shield the kids!' I mean, I'm not going to hand a 4th grader The Hunger Games and explain in detail to them what forced prostitution and avoxes, but I can say 'Finnick had to do things he didn't want to, or else Annie would get killed.'

Exactly! I wish VBS peeps would get this. Stupid David Howie.

Yeah, the Bible is dark at times.

Hell yes. It should be rated R. The protagonist is brutally tortured to death.

Also, there was David giving Bathsheba The Big Pregnant, an entire city collapsing, mass murder of Egyptian firstborns, the guy who had to kill his daughter because he said 'if I win this battle, I'll sacrifice whatever I see first when I come home', the earth being flooded, three dudes being tossed in a furnace, the old king getting his eyes ripped out, multiple child deaths, Cain and Abel, etc.

And that's not even getting into the Saints. Talk about badassery. Joan of Arc was burned alive, Peter was crucified upside down, Bartholomew was skinned alive, Cecelia got her neck cut 3 times with an ax and bled out over 3 days, Maria Goretti was stabbed 12 or 14 times (I can't remember the exact number) and all but 3 stabs went straight through her, the three that didn't hit her spine so hard they bent the knife. And that was all after her neighbor attempted to sexually assault her, and she was 12.

King Herod was almost assassinated, but he was so fat that the knife literally got lost between his rolls. After that, the assassin kind of gave up and went home (I think).

That wasn't Herod.

Who was it? I thought it was him or some other morbidly obese person, but I'm rusty in my Old Testament knowledge.

One of the kings of England (one of the Henrys, I believe) was so fat that he popped out of his coffin.

I thought it was William the Conquerer. Or perhaps it was just that his corpse exploded after death.

I thought it was William the Conqueror. Or perhaps it was just that his corpse exploded after death.

Oh no, he was a hefty dude after his conquering days were behind him. Basically, he let himself go so bad that he didn't fit into his coffin, they stuffed him inside, and then the corpse exploded, rupturing the casket and creating a God-awful smell during the funeral.

King Herod was almost assassinated, but he was so fat that the knife literally got lost between his rolls. After that, the assassin kind of gave up and went home (I think).

Eglon. Killed by Ehud. That guy is one of my favorite Bible stories. And it was even better. Ehud got this small sword and put it on his right thigh. Because he was left handed and put in on the wrong side, the king's guards checked his wrong side before letting him in with his "secret message". He got the guy to dismiss all the guards because it was such an important message and then stabbed him. The king was so fat the sword sunk into him and stayed there. He then dragged the king into the bathroom and shut the door and made his getaway. The guards eventually came back and wondered where the king was. They decided he was just needing a big bathroom break and left him alone until a lot of time had elapsed. Then they came in and the king was super dead. Ehud was long gone.
The guy is a legend.