Yeah, I know they don't have to follow Jewish law, but many do still pick and choose what to believe. I don't necessarily mean the religion as a whole, but usually by church or by individual basis. For example: how I said my mom is pro-choice, but she is also anti-gay, that sort of thing. Not to say it's not okay to have some individual differences within a religion. It's just… people like her, for example, may use religion as an excuse to oppress one group but be lax on other things they see in the Bible.
Well technical corrections are more than welcome.
On some research, it looks like it can work as an abortion pill as it can stop a fertilized egg from attaching to the wall of the uterus.
Just gonna—-pop in here to correct this and then go back to observing–
Fertilization does not happen instantaneously.
It can take up to 6 days before sperm and egg to come together. THEN it can take an additional 3-4 days for the egg to implant itself into the uterus.
The morning after pill must/should be administered between 24-48 hours after unprotected sex to be effective. They use progestin to stop the ovaries from releasing an egg.
So no, it's not an abortion pill.
Hmm. Then it rests on how quickly fertilization can occur. If it can occur within 48 hours of sex, then it can be used as an abortion pill. (Or if the pill is used outside its proper time.) Obviously that is not it's purpose.
Nope, nope, nope.
Morning after can only prevent pregnancy. It can't stop it once its started. That's a different hormone, different pill.
You are still incorrect, friendo.
"The morning-after pill (also known as Emergency Contraception, EC, Preven, or Plan B) prevents pregnancy and does not cause an abortion. It prevents fertilization of an egg or attachment of a fertilized egg to the uterine wall."
(Would you mind deleting the previous argumentative conversation except for the most recent one? I don't want this to have too much arguing. (I know, amazing, right?))
Yeah, I know they don't have to follow Jewish law, but many do still pick and choose what to believe. I don't necessarily mean the religion as a whole, but usually by church or by individual basis. For example: how I said my mom is pro-choice, but she is also anti-gay, that sort of thing. Not to say it's not okay to have some individual differences within a religion. It's just… people like her, for example, may use religion as an excuse to oppress one group but be lax on other things they see in the Bible.
Well the Bible never directly touches on abortion. (Though the church has which invalidates that argument.) But the church has traditionally always been very Pro-life.
But it is not just the Old Testament or more directly the Ceremonial Law that is -for lack of a better term- anti-gay. The church is very not supportive of Lgbt. This is a controversial statement. But most disagree mainly because they lack a complete understanding of the Bible and church history.
(Obviously Christians are supposed to love all and oppress no one for anything.)
"The morning-after pill (also known as Emergency Contraception, EC, Preven, or Plan B) prevents pregnancy and does not cause an abortion. It prevents fertilization of an egg or attachment of a fertilized egg to the uterine wall."
Bruh.
Fertilized eggs get released through periods all the time. It's more common than you think. And this is not considered an abortion OR a miscarriage. A woman is pregnant (and her body starts reacting) when then egg is attached to the uterine wall and starts growing. Not when the egg is fertilized because it can still be expelled naturally.
This is why pregnancy tests do not work until more than a week after unprotected sex. Fertilization doesn't make the body start making pregnancy hormones–attachment to the uterus does. Therefore–a woman is not pregnant at fertilization.
The morning after pill prevents that from happening–but doesnt always work.
The abortion pill stops a pregnancy in it's tracks.
Do you understand the difference?
"The morning-after pill (also known as Emergency Contraception, EC, Preven, or Plan B) prevents pregnancy and does not cause an abortion. It prevents fertilization of an egg or attachment of a fertilized egg to the uterine wall."
Bruh.
Fertilized eggs get released through periods all the time. It's more common than you think. And this is not considered an abortion OR a miscarriage. A woman is pregnant (and her body starts reacting) when then egg is attached to the uterine wall and starts growing. Not when the egg is fertilized because it can still be expelled naturally.
This is why pregnancy tests do not work until more than a week after unprotected sex. Fertilization doesn't make the body start making pregnancy hormones–attachment to the uterus does. Therefore–a woman is not pregnant at fertilization.
The morning after pill prevents that from happening–but doesnt always work.
The abortion pill stops a pregnancy in it's tracks.
Do you understand the difference?
Aight. Did some research. (Love that Bruh btw.) So it seems that it doesn't end a pregnancy because a pregnancy is not defined as such until a implantation into the uterus is complete. This seems to me to be an argument based in technicality. So what would happen would not be defined as abortion or miscarriage based on that fact that those are defined by pregnancy's definition in implantation. But it is still the ending of the zygote's existence.
Also to go back to your first point on this reply, a fertilized egg would be released because the implantation had not occurred, therefore not giving the chemical signals of pregnancy that prevent menstruation. Is that correct?
Well the Bible never directly touches on abortion. (Though the church has which invalidates that argument.) But the church has traditionally always been very Pro-life.
But it is not just the Old Testament or more directly the Ceremonial Law that is -for lack of a better term- anti-gay. The church is very not supportive of Lgbt. This is a controversial statement. But most disagree mainly because they lack a complete understanding of the Bible and church history.
(Obviously Christians are supposed to love all and oppress no one for anything.)
Even then, it is very interpretation-heavy. I had to do a lot of work on interpreting different possible meanings of religious texts last semester. From what I understand, not everyone could agree on exact meanings for even some major things like the status of Mary, the status of Jesus, and the existence of the holy trinity, so they had to hold councils on these things because they were not explicitly clear in the Bible. Even major points in Christianity had to be interpreted by human beings. So I wouldn't call it lack of understanding. It's just interpretation, and neither one is inherently more correct than the other. How do we know the more traditional interpretations are the more correct ones?
The denomination that I am a part of doesn't frown upon using birth control. They think it's necessary for a woman to protect, and take care of herself. They frown upon having sex before marriage, but using birth control? It's common and accepted, because it benefits the well being of the woman, and only prevents pregnancy.
Yeah, that's a good question. Why isn't birth control, even within marriage okay for some denominations? Some women need time to further their careers to support their family, or may want to wait a few years between children and take birth control in between, but they're still having sex, and they fit under the umbrella of people who do have sex for procreative purposes.
What I do know, is that some denominations (at least around where I live) are very patriarchal. The man makes the choices, whatsoever. The woman isn't really thought of. If the church says no birth control, the man in the house has to enforce it. I had a friend who was on birth control and her boyfriend found out and he told her either that she had to throw it away, or he was ending the relationship. She ended that relationship on the spot and moved on.
Yeah, that's a good question. Why isn't birth control, even within marriage okay for some denominations? Some women need time to further their careers to support their family, or may want to wait a few years between children and take birth control in between, but they're still having sex, and they fit under the umbrella of people who do have sex for procreative purposes.
Because there are natural ways to prevent pregnancy. Using artificial ways means using sex without any of its natural purpose.
The denomination that I am a part of doesn't frown upon using birth control. They think it's necessary for a woman to protect, and take care of herself. They frown upon having sex before marriage, but using birth control? It's common and accepted, because it benefits the well being of the woman, and only prevents pregnancy.
That is not in line with the traditional church. (I do not have 100% affiliation with any church, but the first church is the right one. Unfortunately there are so many splits that I don't know even if the true church is still around. I plan on looking into Orthodoxy.)
What I do know, is that some denominations (at least around where I live) are very patriarchal. The man makes the choices, whatsoever. The woman isn't really thought of. If the church says no birth control, the man in the house has to enforce it.
Well the other option is not following the teachings of ones church so I don't see the issue. If you are a part of a church, it is your job to live under it's teachings and religious demands. So of course the man should enforce it. And so should the woman. They should be mutually agreed on it because of what their church teaches.
The denomination that I am a part of doesn't frown upon using birth control. They think it's necessary for a woman to protect, and take care of herself. They frown upon having sex before marriage, but using birth control? It's common and accepted, because it benefits the well being of the woman, and only prevents pregnancy.
That is not in line with the traditional church. (I do not have 100% affiliation with any church, but the first church is the right one. Unfortunately there are so many splits that I don't know even if the true church is still around. I plan on looking into Orthodoxy.)
I'm not traditional traditional. I go to a Church of God, and they are accepting of most things. They don't accept LGBTQ+, but they won't beat it out of you with a bible. They'll try to change you with words, and why it's wrong, but if it fails, they'll roll with it. But again, this is the denomination that people think plays with snakes and fire, but that's not true either.
I'm intellectually rather traditional. In my life… not as much. But we all need to grow in Christ.
Homosexuality.
Why y'all gotta rain on our pride parade?
So. Homosexuality bad. Says so in the Good Book. (And the church.) That's it.
Besides the time the gays got rained on with fire rocks, Romans and Corinthians. (Plus the Old Testament that says they must die. But luckily we don't do that anymore because Christians need not follow the Ceremonial Law.)
The wrongdoing of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah wasn’t even explicitly homosexuality… it was literally nondescript except the night the angels stayed with Lot and his family and these men wanted to rape the angels, who were guests. It’s not explicitly because they were men. It’s rape.
Like I said earlier, the Bible is subject to so much interpretation that it’s totally unfair to say any one interpretation is completely and indisputably “true” and “correct,” even the “original interpretation.”
As for Romans and Corinthians, I can’t remember them off the top of my head, but I’ve had to analyze much of that scripture before and still can’t wrap my head around why homosexuality is so hated. Literally adultery was treated more acceptable than homosexuality in my churches growing up, even though one should be a much bigger deal than the other. You don’t think the weight put on the “wrongness” of homosexuality is blown out of proportion?
So the story of S and G was always considered by first the Jews and then the Christians to be about Homosexuality. So that pretty much means it was. Especially as S and G were known for that and no where else and those other crimes… were.
As for the interpretation argument. It's pretty explicit. And of course the actual original one was.
And for my take, I don't exactly understand why homosexuality is a big deal. (I have theories involving optimal compatibility being with the opposite sexes so as to produce the best safety and development of children.)
But really… it doesn't matter what I think. This isn't the first thing I really don't understand. But I have to believe it. I have been convinced through both my upbringing and logical analysis that Christianity is the true religion and contains the Truth of existence. Because of that, if Christianity says that a thing is true, it must be so, regardless of any feelings I might have.
So the story of S and G was always considered by first the Jews and then the Christians to be about Homosexuality. So that pretty much means it was. Especially as S and G were known for that and no where else and those other crimes… were.
hmmm, that's… that's a very selective reading? Even within the Bible it's acknowledged that S and G were about more than homosexuality. yes it was was part of it, but it certainly wasn't limited to it. so for example you have Ezekiel 16: 49-50 where it says: "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen." (wow, it's almost like we could insert any rich country into "Sodom" here and accurately describe it. that's depressing. anyway.) in the same context, it also mentions lewdness and sexual perversion, so homosexuality was a part of it, but it's a bit narrow to limit it to that only.
and tbh I think that highlights a part of Christianity that we Christians these days kind of fail at? we point out the things in society that we feel comfortable condemning because we often feel removed from it ourselves. But the fact is that God's standards are high in every part of life, and all people fall short everywhere. Part of being a Christian, like Dom said, is believing that God sets the standards of what's good, and knowing that even if I don't understand the standards I need to trust that he knows what he's doing. another part is knowing that his standards are literally impossible for someone to meet on their own, and the entire point of Christianity is knowing that Jesus did it on my behalf. As I get to know him better he enables me to live more like him, and he shows me that I can trust that he's changing me for the better. But it's ridiculous and wrong to claim that there are certain kinds of people who have to change before he offers that to them. There are no entry requirements to being a Christian. God doesn't say "I'll take anyone, but not them."
Nicely spoken! Well said! I am both surprised and glad that you were able to pull a passage I was unfamiliar with.
But what you said about the story of S and G (though I will admit you made a very good point) is not the only part of the Bible that strongly condemns homosexuality. (But yeah, arrogance and not helping the poor should still be high on the radar.)
Like you said, God will take anyone; but one cannot be a Christian moving forward while still committing a sin and not repenting of it.
But of course, with God's help, all of us shall be turned to better creatures.
As @Winter-And-Her-Colors-Are-Fading said, some opinions vary from denomination to denomination. My family (& denomination) is pretty pro-life, though I'm not sure about birth control feelings.
Another thing that the Bible says that can be overlooked sometimes is to love everyone. There are some things that it says are wrong (that could be controversial), but the main message is to try and treat everyone like Jesus would. For example, one of my friends is atheist, and he made a point to tell me and my other Christian friend that he appreciated us treating him like we would any of our other friends, even though he believes different things than us.
IMPORTANT NOTE: We aren't perfect. We try to be kind but we all have bad days. The last paragraph of @ninja_violinist's last post highlights it very well. (I'm sorry for mostly referencing other people, but they've just said it so much better than I could.)
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