forum Please let me critique characters!!! [CLOSED - SORRY!]

Started May 20, 2020 by @CinnamonRoll

tune

oki, thanks

Alright, it's @salami011 time! "Please be harsh…' Oh boy, I will do my best, but no promises! Okay, top down…

Galleries!!! Love them. Nick is kind of giving off "Hogwarts, but if J.K. Rowling knew how to appreciate all people" vibes, solely based on the sweater.

Nature–the most important part! You asked me to be harsh, but for the most part, Nick just… works. He reads like a quiet, reserved, but internally confident person. There's one major incongruity here, though–you say he tends to use the silent treatment on people when he's angry. Good, love it, fits with his characterization. But then you say that he'll snap when he's had enough and has been really mean to people when he's had enough. This just doesn't make sense. Consider how he generally stays away from people, both physically and emotionally, and how his greatest motivation is to get away from everyone. That kind of personalty is very conducive to icing others out, but not so much to outbursts of anger. It just doesn't make much sense. Of course, with further explanation, I could understand how he might show anger in specific situations. But as an overall character trait, it doesn't fit.

Another issue–his low self-esteem. This one is all me, because technically, it fits fine. There's nothing directly opposed to low self-esteem on this page. However, people with low self-esteem generally seek out validation from the people around them–e.g., they care a LOT about what others think of them. So I would just be aware of that moving forward. When I read through his page, I thought Nick was a quietly self-assured character, so that low self-esteem caught me off guard.

Snake at a petting zoo????? Did he pet it???? I want to pet a snake.

My pet peeve is underdeveloped politics/religion sections. Don't overthink it and consider elections or churches–boil it down to the basics. For politics, explain where Nick falls on a liberal/centrist/conservative spectrum. He may not know how he would vote, but explaining generally where he stands can help us understand his character. Making some BROAD brushstrokes here, I'd guess tending liberal, because of the thrifting and colored hair, but those are just stereotypes and you know your character much better than I do. For religion, think about his feeling about church–does he like/dislike the ritual aspect? The idea of a God? The worship/not worship of saints, depending on the Christian denomination? The stances of his Church (stuff like gay rights, immigration, etc.)? Boil that down and you'll be able to determine if he leans atheist, agnostic, Christian denominational, Christian non-denominational, or something else entirely. It's actually cool to think about!

History is generally solid, but there's one MAJOR deviation here. In History, you say that Nick acts like he doesn't care, while in Nature, you said that he actually doesn't care. That drastically changes my earlier critiques. It's important that you make the distinction between the two. It can be both, but you have to establish (a) when he flipped from caring to not caring or vice versa, or (b) how he struggles not to listen to what other people think about him. Other than that one major flaw, backstory looks solid to me!

Overall: you need to rectify this issue between "low self esteem due to parental pressure, cares what others think, anxious and perfectionist" and "high self esteem, doesn't care what others think, resistant or passive to parental pressure, perfectionist but more chill." It's like you took the two genera. paths that a pressured child could take and collapses them into one, and it's messing with character consistency.

All in all, I really hope this helps you–and that I was as harsh as you wanted! :DDD

Hey hey back already, but no rush at all!
If you could give Cello a looking over? I've re-worked his sheet so many times my eyes are bleeding, I need an outside opinion to tell me what's what :) Also, I'm terribly sorry if his is confusing, he's so prevalent across all my books it was hard to fit all the important stuff in and still be consise.

Azizia Wayland Here is my baby if you would like to take a look at her.

@CinnamonRoll
Thank you so much!! You harshness was great. I've been told that he was good but there was just something off. Thanks for helping me find it.

Okay, @Atlanta_Art, it's party time! Top down on Cali…

So I rarely critique looks, because it's honestly the least important part of a character, but I have to tell you that I'm having a hard time picturing Cali. Not a big deal, but I would try to flesh out this field a bit more!

Nature–the most important part! I'll be honest with you, I can't critique Cali that well with what you have here. This is a skeleton of a character sheet. If you fill it out more, I'd encourage you to come back at let me look over Cali again. But for now, I can see one glaring issue. Cali is a happy person, so happy that it becomes annoying at times. But at the same time, her motivation is happiness–something that she already has enough of. So did something happen to threaten her happiness? Does she crave stability in her happiness? If she's achieved her motivation, the story is flat. Consider adding different motivations or adding nuance to the one you currently have. Also, LITERALLY NO ONE has no prejudices. We all have some kind of ingrained bias. Due to Cali's upbringing, she may have biases she barely even realizes. It's just not realistic to suggest that she has no prejudices.

Religion–you say she doesn't practice. When I see this in character sheets, I generally ask for a clarification: is your character atheistic or agnostic? If you don't know the difference, I would read up on the distinction a little!

Politics–I always get sad when character sheets just say "none." I find it helpful to rate my characters on a scale of liberal to conservative, based on how they feel about things like LGBTQ issues, taxes, imperialism, etc., etc. It adds a layer of depth to the character–thought processes beyond simple personality.

History is the second-most important part of a character sheet, but I see NOTHING of relevance here. This doesn't tell me anything about why she's so happy, how she became a sprinkle, anything. I'm sorry, but I can't really help you out with this level of backstory. Please, please come back when you have a more in-depth backstory transcribed, because I'd love to help you out!

I'm sorry I couldn't do any more, but I hope that what I've given you here helps you a bit!! :DDD

@salami011 - I'm so glad I was harsh enough!! He definitely is a good character, and I hope I helped you make him even better! <3

@Oakley-is-Oaken-Bull!!! Welcome back!! I'm hoping for some absolute WALLS of text on Cello's sheet. Here we go, top down…

Before I start, can we TALK about those TITLES?? Let me tell you, I still can't make a title to save my damn life, and your are stunningly beautiful. Well! Done!

Your discussion of the type of people he likes is interesting. I don't have anything to connect it to yet, but I'm curious to see how it connects to his nature and backstory.

I feel like I said this same thing for Dakota–weight is important! Currently, Cello is in a strange position where he's a military man, but still rather thin. For both of these to be true, he's probably solid muscle, just with less definition. That means he's not light at all–he'd be average or even a little high. If he were light, that would also make sense, because ranking up in the military may have meant more desk work for him. But if that's true, you'll have to compromise on his strength.

Okay! I actually read through everything and took down some notes, since I figured that would be easier than constantly switching screens. So, number one: the narcissist issue.

I don't know how else to put it: you have written a narcissistic character. You say that he's not a narcissist, but everything points that way–the desire for devoted followers, the supposed intellectual superiority, the manipulative and destructive relationships. Honestly, I have no idea why you felt the need to put "He's not a narcissist" as a disclaimer. Because he is! And that's okay! And Cello can still be a lot more than 'narcissist villain' even if that label is there. He's already so much more–but he's already a narcissist, too. And I feel like that's important to recognize.

Next, let's get into some little inconsistencies. For starts, you have a VERY well-made character here, so I really had to nitpick to find some issues. I knew that the types of people he likes/loves would connect! Here we go. Having read through Cello's nature, I literally cannot fathom how he can love intelligent and less-than intelligent people in the same capacity. He literally believes everyone is below him, so how could he really love someone less intelligent? His manipulative tendencies would creep in to a relationship that unbalanced, and unless his significant other is an emotional TANK, the relationship would just crumble. Plus, there's always the question of, "Why bother?" Why exactly would Cello date someone so far below him, if he could just control them as a follower instead? You said that he prefers these people because they're better emotionally, but at least for me, that only partially rectifies the issue. Now I'm not saying it's impossible for a relationship like that to work, just that you have to address these questions if you choose to write such a relationship.

And as for the love of people who are intelligent and on/near his level–how would he process that? How would he be able to move past his superiority complex and accept that someone is on the same level as him? I could understand how mutual respect would give birth to a relationship, but where does that respect begin?

Easy forgiveness is both in and out of character. On one hand, he's been devastated by people leaving him, and therefore would want anyone who messed up back. But on the other hand, he thinks he's above everyone, so why would he be willing to forgive anyone? I mean, if they went against him, they're clearly fundamentally wrong. I think this is a good place to start building an emotional duality for Cello. Make a clear distinction: he'll never forgive people he isn't close to, but once you're in the fold, he'll forgive you immediately just to get you back. Some level of emotional vulnerability could also help when you try to fix up the relationships question.

Plus, this could give Cello what he so desperately needs: a WEAKNESS. He's got flaws, sure, but no real exposed vulnerabilities. Playing on this idea that Cello is emotionally starved is the perfect weakness. He can easily hide it during times of conflict, and sometimes it's not even on his mind. But it's still there.

I feel like you may have been hinting at that when you said he was "sad and lonely." (maybe?) If not, you need to develop that way more, because right now, saying Cello is "sad and lonely" just feels like it was tacked on as an afterthought. It's jarringly out of place with the rest of his character. But to paint him as emotionally starved makes sense. It gives him sadness and loneliness, but it also makes sense in character. He's up on a pedestal, but there's only enough room up there for one, you know?

This is getting MAD long, and it's only going to get LONGER! You say that Cello is fearless–that makes no sense. He's clearly got an issue with people leaving. He might not be afraid of anything else (can you say GOD COMPLEX) and that''s fine, but make it clear!

Also, you say he doesn't care what others think of him, but he very, very clearly does. I mean, his whole personality in close relationships is designed around masks that are perfectly designed to please the other person. Again, duality: he doesn't care a bit what his subordinates think of him, probably even what his peers think, but he does care what those he loves think of him–maybe a little too much. Why else would he feel the need to tailor his personality around them so much?

PAPER AIRPLANES

I'm WHEEZING

Okay, so he was ranked below general for a LONG time, yet still managed to control everything. That kind of doesn't make sense, especially considering the ungreasable cogs of military bureaucracy. If it makes sense in your timeline, go off–but remember, there will be times when he's stifled by his superiors.

AN IRISH MAN

AN I R I S H MAN

allergic to POTATOES????

I love it. And I'll leave it at that, because I've already written WAY too much. Hopefully some small part of this is helpful to you, and I can honestly say that Cello is an outstanding character. I'd definitely fall in love with him, even though my sister would tell me he's a terrible person (he's SO not). You've done excellent work already, and I hope in some little way I can make it even better!! :DDDD

@Relsey - that last one got really long, and it's movie night for me, so break time! Don't worry though, I'll get Azizia done tonight. <3

Hey! If you aren't too bust already, would you mind taking a look at one of my characters? He's kind of a side character, and very VERY far from being complete, so take what I have as a rough draft of sorts :)

@JuniperDreams - I'm not too busy at all! I just logged back on to critique @Relsey 's character. I like to take breaks inbetween critiques so I don't short-change anyone, but I'll get yours done tonight as well! :DD

@JuniperDreams - I'm not too busy at all! I just logged back on to critique @Relsey 's character. I like to take breaks inbetween critiques so I don't short-change anyone, but I'll get yours done tonight as well! :DD

Awesome, thank you! Take your time :)

Okay, @Relsey, let's do this! Top down on the lovely Azizia…

First of all, beautiful name! It's unconventional without being unpronounceable. Really nice job there!

I don't tend to critique on looks, but I will warn you, Azizia seems a bit light for her height and level of athleticism. 115 puts her on the low end for someone 5'4", but with her visible muscle and extensive skill, she should be on the average or higher side. It doesn't seem like a huge deal, but knowing your character's relative weights is VERY helpful when writing fight scenes.

(Also, quick note–there are a lot of spelling errors on this character sheet. That's absolutely not my business to critique, but I just want you to be aware of that when you start writing! Google Docs has pretty solid spell checking, and Grammarly is also a helpful extension. :D)

Nature is virtually perfect. Nothing is blatantly out of place, and most of her traits seem naturally arising. However, I worry that you're not delving deep enough into Azizia's character. You say that she's a good leader, but also a micromanager–you'd think those traits go together, but they don't really. To be a successful leader, you have to be able to delegate and release some control. If she can't do that, Azizia will stretch herself too thin and burn out. But I'm not seeing any of that in her sheet. She reads like a slightly undeveloped side character. Maybe that's okay, since she's the mentor figure. But to have a truly successful mentor, you have to have a character who's learned from her mistakes. Right now, her flaws don't fit with her overall characterization. That could be helpful as one of those 'past mistakes–' how she learned to move past trust issues. If that's not the angle you want to take, know that realistically, that flaw would be a major hindrance for a leader.

Okay, let's talk about this backstory. It's perfectly fine, but it's missing a lot. This doesn't explain a lot of her personality: why does she think humans are lesser beings? Was she trained to be a powerful leader, or was she naturally gifted? How did her trust issues develop? Why did she start micromanaging? What birthed her fear of being trapped? Like I said, her personality is generally solid, but there's nothing here to anchor it. I don't know why Azizia is Azizia after reading this, and I really should.

Another issue is the timeline. If she met Eyamir when she was 12, does that mean that she had to kill her own brother before that time? Let me tell you: there is absolutely NO WAY that a 10 or 11-year-old child could kill her brother and than essentially be fine. Sure, she was traumatized, but it looks like she just threw herself into combat training–at, like, AGE 11. That makes no sense, I'm sorry. I would strongly recommend aging her up. Remember, people can still be strongly impacted by traumatic events when they get older.

The age presents another problem: at this age, Azizia can't be a fulfilling mentor figure. A mentor figure must have enough experience throughout their life to offer wise guidance. The only way Azizia could get that level of wisdom is if you jam-pack her life with tragedy and failure, but that would make her MUCH less stable as a character. Now, if you play on the big sister angle more, the age makes more sense, but you still have to think about what I said in the above paragraph.

Anyway! I sincerely hope I wasn't too harsh. I had to nit-pick a bit, since her personality is really quite smooth! Let me know if you have any questions or want me to look over an updated version of Azizia. Until then, I hope I helped!! :DDD

@CinnamonRoll Thank you for your critiques! I hadn't really though about where her Micro managing comes from I'll have to work that into her background. I would age her up but part of her arc later deals with her age. I didn't include every thing I should have in her background, some of whitch included the reasoning behind some of things you talked about. I actually have two different character sheets for Azizia one when she is 19 and one when she is 14 ish. I'm still tweeking dates and ages but for the most part her family needs to be out of the picture reletivly early in order for a big part of her arc to work.
Actually if you wouldn't mind, would it be pausible for me to post both and have you see if the evolution of her character makes sense?
(Sorry, my spelling is really bad, It was incredibly late when I typed out her character and I haven't edited sense then, It's something I'm working at)

Okay, @JuniperDreams, let's do this! Top down on Vash…

This is crazy, but I actually have a character named Seraphine as well! But that's not relevant–this critique is!

Quick question on looks. You describe Vash with facial hair, but he was born in a woman's body. In a fantasy world, how does that work? I would add that explanation, just to alleviate confusion and promote realism.

The nature page makes Vash sound like a fun character, but there are a couple big holes. First, I can't help but notice that you neglected the 'prejudices' section. All characters have some kind of ingrained prejudice. Considering that Vash was raised in a royal family, he would logically have ingrained views of certain other nations. Also, since he's a transgender man, I feel like Vash would have strong opinions against the fantasy-world-transphobes, if they exist (and, logically, they absolutely should. If only so you can stomp on the fantasy transphobes). The more major issue comes in with his flaws. These flaws make sense for certain parts of his character (like his intellectual nature and his outward projection of confidence) they don't line up with other parts of his character AT ALL. You describe Vash as a diplomat who is in charge of welcoming foreign guests and planning major events. To do that, he simply can't be a dismissive person who dominates conversations and comes off as combative. A person like that wouldn't be tasked with diplomacy. You either have to rework his flaws or scrap the diplomatic side to his character.

For religion, when people say none, I always ask for a clarification: atheistic (there is no god) or agnostic (there may be a god, but this character doesn't actively worship or participate in organized religion). It helps define a character's worldview as more nihilistic or more hopeful. And then for politics, I'd be interested in hearing more about Vash's moral code! Not all of it, of course, but it certainly could be helpful to spell out some of the black-and-white areas.

Backstory is great! I like learning about Vash's relationships with his siblings. Also, HUGE shout-out to his parents from moving from "Chill but confused" to "You're our new eldest son, so you're head of the Guard now." (Really sad circumstances, but still, progressive!) However, I have a major complaint about this backstory. It doesn't fully explain your character's personality. Actually, I find myself left with additional questions. Since Vash is in a position that isn't his strong suit due to a horrible tragedy, how does he manage to be upbeat and enthusiastic? How did he develop his intellectual/debater nature? And how (perhaps more importantly, why) did he end up as a major diplomatic force? How does that work with his other position as head of the Guard? I would really like to see Vash's backstory fleshed out to actually explain who he is and how he became that person.

Overall, though, he's a lovely character! (And trans representation in fantasy is IMPORTANT!) I tend to nit-pick a lot with these, so I really hope I wasn't too harsh. I hope that my feedback helps you out!!! :DDD

@Relsey - Yes, absolutely!!! Making multiple sheets for a character is actually brilliant, and I'd love to see them side-by-side! :D

Oh, and the spelling isn't a big deal in the great age of spell check!! I just wanted to make sure you were aware. <3

Sorry I'm back so quickly, but I have another character for you. If you're not too busy I would love for you to take a look at him. Beleth

Okay, @JuniperDreams, let's do this! Top down on Vash…

This is crazy, but I actually have a character named Seraphine as well! But that's not relevant–this critique is!

Quick question on looks. You describe Vash with facial hair, but he was born in a woman's body. In a fantasy world, how does that work? I would add that explanation, just to alleviate confusion and promote realism.

The nature page makes Vash sound like a fun character, but there are a couple big holes. First, I can't help but notice that you neglected the 'prejudices' section. All characters have some kind of ingrained prejudice. Considering that Vash was raised in a royal family, he would logically have ingrained views of certain other nations. Also, since he's a transgender man, I feel like Vash would have strong opinions against the fantasy-world-transphobes, if they exist (and, logically, they absolutely should. If only so you can stomp on the fantasy transphobes). The more major issue comes in with his flaws. These flaws make sense for certain parts of his character (like his intellectual nature and his outward projection of confidence) they don't line up with other parts of his character AT ALL. You describe Vash as a diplomat who is in charge of welcoming foreign guests and planning major events. To do that, he simply can't be a dismissive person who dominates conversations and comes off as combative. A person like that wouldn't be tasked with diplomacy. You either have to rework his flaws or scrap the diplomatic side to his character.

For religion, when people say none, I always ask for a clarification: atheistic (there is no god) or agnostic (there may be a god, but this character doesn't actively worship or participate in organized religion). It helps define a character's worldview as more nihilistic or more hopeful. And then for politics, I'd be interested in hearing more about Vash's moral code! Not all of it, of course, but it certainly could be helpful to spell out some of the black-and-white areas.

Backstory is great! I like learning about Vash's relationships with his siblings. Also, HUGE shout-out to his parents from moving from "Chill but confused" to "You're our new eldest son, so you're head of the Guard now." (Really sad circumstances, but still, progressive!) However, I have a major complaint about this backstory. It doesn't fully explain your character's personality. Actually, I find myself left with additional questions. Since Vash is in a position that isn't his strong suit due to a horrible tragedy, how does he manage to be upbeat and enthusiastic? How did he develop his intellectual/debater nature? And how (perhaps more importantly, why) did he end up as a major diplomatic force? How does that work with his other position as head of the Guard? I would really like to see Vash's backstory fleshed out to actually explain who he is and how he became that person.

Overall, though, he's a lovely character! (And trans representation in fantasy is IMPORTANT!) I tend to nit-pick a lot with these, so I really hope I wasn't too harsh. I hope that my feedback helps you out!!! :DDD

Yo, this was super helpful!! No one has really gone in on a character of mine like that before, so thanks! So I like to develop my character on paper before I transfer them to Notebook, so a lot of his sections are blank right now solely due to that; he absolutely has prejudices, I'm just working on how to word them at the moment :) And yeah, I'm still developing how the gender transition stuff works in-universe, but magic exists here so I'm working with that. Seriously, everything you have said is super super helpful! I'm extremely appreciative for your bluntness!

@JuniperDreams - Thank you!!!! I"m so glad you liked it!!! And I totally understand the paper-first route. I try to keep that in mind most of the time, but I guess I went off on prejudices a little–sorry! And feel free to drop any other characters you'd like looked at in here. In case you can't tell, I really enjoy this!! (I might drop some of mine in your new thread as well!) :DD

@Alastor_Radio_Demon - don't apologize for being back! I'm glad to have you! I'd love, love, love to see your next character, but they're still set to private! Make sure the link is public and I'll check them out! :DD

@CinnamonRoll He should now be public

@Alastor_Radio_Demon and so he is! Here we go, top down…

Okay, just like last time, weight was like a bucket of ice water–but this time it's because I was fully expecting a big cat or similarly animal-based character.

Two seconds later: after a quick foray into Google Images, I have learned that a kudu is, in fact, an animal, and that I am reeling more than before. But anyway, I have a real critique to write here!

Okay, let's delve into Beleth's personality a little bit. Before I begin, I must warn you: I do not have personal experience with depression, nor have I had to spend significant time researching how to successfully write depressed characters. So if I offend you in any way, I would like to preemptively apologize. And if Beleth is in any way based on your own experiences, I'd like to remind you that I, for one, certainly value your presence on my thread and would miss it if you were to leave.

Mannerisms are quite dark. There's nothing inherently wrong with that, but I would encourage you to add some more casual mannerisms into the mix. You later describe Beleth as charismatic and charming around people–explain his little quirks! Does he act flirtatiously? Smile slowly while speaking? Laugh at even the worst jokes? And day-to-day things–does he scuff his feet when walking? Tap them? Try to think of some more average mannerisms to balance out the extreme. (also, does he just have a gun on him at all times?)

You say that he chooses life again and again due to the song Don't Stop Believin' (an anthem, no doubt). But I have to ask–what exactly is he believing in? He's an atheist, he doesn't support the prime minister, and I see no evidence of friends or lovers. His bandmates aren't even described in detail. I love the idea of Beleth staying strong and holding onto belief, but make sure you give him something to believe IN.

With his extroverted nature, I would assume that Beleth has made many friends, but none are linked or described. If there are relationships that you know about in your head, I would encourage you to write them down. However, if not, I have to ask why. What is the driving force behind Beleth pushing people away? Is it his suicidal tendencies, or something else entirely? Personally, I would go for something else, for reasons that I'll explain at the end.

(Who let him have a gun ON STAGE? Don't they not allow those into concerts? Also, I'm begging you to give this man a good therapist, because he has a nice dog and I want him to live)

Serious question: Why on earth is his favorite color beige? I feel like that needs explanation.

His hatred of violence is a good way, I think, for any future characters to connect to him. If he tells them he hates violence and killing because, say, it robs a family of a loved one, this other character could remind Beleth that he has people who love him, too. Obviously it's not a cure-all, but it could be a touching angle to play on.

Wait a minute. WAIT A MINUTE. A ten-year-old just… committed mass murder??? I feel like that is NOT explained enough at ALL. At ten, I barely grasped the concept of death in totality. And much more importantly, how did no one STOP him? This is a child we're talking about. And then they just executed a 12-year-old?? Look, if this makes sense in your universe, that's great. But from what you have here, it doesn't make sense to me. If this is truly all you have, I'd encourage you to work on deepening the explanations.

More importantly, his disgust at violence and death makes less sense when paired with such a backstory. Is it something that developed after his rebirth, as he looked back at his old life with new eyes? If so, note that!

Also, this backstory is lacking in that it doesn't give an origin point for his suicidal thoughts. Was his refusal of rehabilitation his first attempt at suicide? Was it after he was reborn and regretted his old life? Was it a genetic or natural depression that he'd struggled with, even at the age of ten? Since you've made his suicidal tendencies a large part of his character, nailing down that origin point is key.

And here's my last note. While I fully recognize that depression and suicidal thoughts can devour a person and become a huge part of they personality, be careful that you don't make Beleth a poster child for depression. Remember to round him out as a character! I can see you doing that with details about his pet, his extroverted personality, his procrastination, and his political views. I just think that you need to go deeper and explore who Beleth was before that origin point sparked his suicidal thoughts. Once you have that, you can analyze how his depression altered his existing personality–not dominated it completely. Once you're there, I think Beleth has the chance to be a wonderful character.

Oh, and give him a supporting cast!!! My boy needs some friends. :)

I really hope this helps you–and that I didn't oversimplify any issues!! :DDD

@CinnamonRoll That was very helpful indeed. He is definitely going to get some friends in the future but since he is the first character I made for this universe he doesn't have any yet. Thank you again for your helpful reviews. I do believe that you give some of the best critiques on this site.

@CinnamonRoll That was very helpful indeed. He is definitely going to get some friends in the future but since he is the first character I made for this universe he doesn't have any yet. Thank you again for your helpful reviews. I do believe that you give some of the best critiques on this site.

Ohhhh thank you so much you're making me cry!!! I'm so glad I could help!!! And, as always, drop back in anytime with your other characters!! :DDD