forum What do you classify as a Mary Sue / Gary Sue?
Started by @iEchoX
tune

people_alt 9 followers

@BookAddict

When they're like "It's ok! Don't worry about the scary monster! I can save ALL of you with these amazing random power nobody knew I had that I'm just gonna think up on the spot right now! There, done! Aren't I just the absolute BEST!"

@Mindful_Bison

Think Rey in the Force Awakens. Was absolutely nobody, and suddenly could use the force, fight well with a lightsaber, and use the freaking Jedi mind tricks.

Going from nothing to "Oh wow, hidden talents that help me accomplish my goals perfectly" is what I usually think of when I hear Mary Sue.

@iEchoX

I totally agree, where random powers we've never heard the character having before come into play just when the character needs them

@charkieshark

when I hear Mary-Sue, I think of a person with absolutely no flaws, or really shoddy ones. They're dating the main character if they're an OC, are really pretty and everyone loves them. They're everything and nothing at the same time. Just an overpowered and perfect person, really. Pretty much god-like.

(sorry I'm super passionate about mary-sues)

@Story_Siren group

A Mary/Gary Sue to me is someone who is the main character, overpowered with no limits, and no flaws whatsoever. The 'hey look I have the precisely perfect power to handle this problem with no consequences or limits. yay!' Ugh. They're so boring, precisely because they have no limits or flaws; they're not human, therefore they're not relatable.

@HighPockets group

A Mary Sue (which Rey is not) isn’t the MC, and is just a side character that has Palpitine voice ultimate power! and constantly saves anyone and everyone. They also have no flaws and are perfect(ly annoying)
As for the term itself, I prefer to say Overpowered Main, because I comsider Mary Sue a sexist term.

@Masterkey

You guys if you read this thread with the mindset of "Wow these people are freaking jealous of Mary/Gary," it's so funny. XD

But anyhoo, I usually think that Mary/Gary exists mostly in the "no character flaws" type. I think the overpowered character CAN work and be very interesting and intriguing if the author can still create high stakes somehow, or the story isn't about "power" at all. Those stories are super cool, cuz they can be different if done right.

@WriteOutofTime

A Mary Sue doesn't necessarily have to be overpowered. IMO, it's typically an idealized version of the writer. A weird self-insert where the writer erases their own insecurities and flaws to kind of self protect in the story. Mary Sue's don't seem human because they're based off a human except all the parts that make them human are erased. When I was ten, I made one. She had medium skin like me, but instead of my brown eye tightly curled brown hair combo, she had ocean blue eyes and loosely curled red hair. Instead of being loud and shy like me, she was quiet, introverted, and intelligent. She was good at everything and everyone loved her and called her beautiful 24/7. Basically, who I wanted to be/thought I kind of was.

The mark of a true Mary Sue/Gary Stu is the lack of realism. A character without flaws and without struggle is a Mary Sue. So if your character just bursts into the scene with impossibly blue eyes, no flaws,
and the ability to wield a sword by just picking one up, you might have a Mary Sue.

Btw Rey from Star Wars is totally a Mary Sue because of her lack of struggle. She kinda feels like a Star Wars fanfic self insert lol

@Mindful_Bison

Lol in your second paragraph you said "Mary Sue/Gary Stu
But yeah the whole Force Awakens movie seemed like a high-budget fan movie remaking the original trilogy.

@Masterkey

The new star wars movies have kinda been letdowns… Except I enjoyed Rogue One. It was so different. Sure, it has flaws too, but it always stands out in my mind somehow.

@Mindful_Bison

I really did enjoy Rogue One… Probably because it made sense given the predetermined plotline. There were no loose strings in that movie.

@Masterkey

Yeah, and it was the first time they had characters caught in between the "good guys" and the "bad guys" just trying to get by, and maybe make a little money. I never even stopped to consider regular civilians or characters who just didn't want to get involved in the war (besides Han, but he quickly switched to fighting in the war). Everyone in the first movies were a part of the government or army.

And the sacrifice made by people basically forced into the fight was so moving I was shaking when I walked out of the theater.

@ninja_violinist

A Mary Sue (for me) is someone who can act without negative consequences. The entire world warps around them until they can be as selfish, overbearing, irritating, morally flawed, [insert negative adjective here], as they want and everyone still loves them and nothing bad happens. It's like they're not really part of the world as much as the world exists to serve their needs. When something bad does happen to this Mary Sue, well then it's always external or someone being irrational and is absolutely not the MS's fault beacuse they're just such a special little pancake who couldn't possibly do anything wrong.
Which is also why I don't consider Rey a Mary Sue, incidentally. Her actions carry plenty of implications which are explored, and bad things happen to her because of choices she's made in the past. She's allowed to mess up, make bad choices, and it's clear that although she's important, the world around her doesn't warp to follow her every whim.
(Though I have to say I watch those movies for the art and soundtrack more than anything else)

@WriteOutofTime

Idk man. When did was Rey allowed to mess up and actually face consequences? Everything kinda did bend around her. From Han taking an instant liking to her, to her being able to escape impossible situations by using power she shouldn't really have… it seemed mighty convenient

@HighPockets group

Because when Rey messed up, she messed up bad

  • when she almost killed everyone on Han’s ship by releasing the rathtars
  • when she tried to run away into the woods instead of facing the first order and got captured by Kylo
  • when Finn and Han tried to rescue her, which resulted in Han’s death and Finn being wounded
  • when she was humiliated by Luke multiple times for messing up at her training
  • by giving into her dark side and going to the cave, and also by going to join Kylo, which almost got her killed
  • by refusing to kill Kylo, this enabling Kylo to kill Luke
    Therefore, Rey isn’t a Mary Sue. All of her skills are explained, and she messes up quite often.