forum Celtic/Scottish Lore

Started June 19, 2020 by @ElderGod-Winter-The-Renegade-Legionnaire book

tune

oh wow this is cool

Ya have any questions?

not at the moment but i probably will later

Okay

Alrighty Winter, I've got a whole bunch of questions I could probably easily google coming your way lol. You don't have to answer them all at once, take your time :)

1. I understand ná daoine sídhe or ná daoine maithe translates to the fairy people or the good people- does this mean all fairy folk are good?

2. You mentioned that Spriggen and some fairies are tricky, use humans to do their bidding, and bring bad luck- is there a difference between good fairies and bad ones?

3. Going along with that, are all magical beings considered ná daoine sídhe/ná daoine maithe, or only the good ones? Are all magical beings, like púcaí, spirits, etc., considered fae/fairies?

4. What are nymphs, exactly? Is there a nymph for every element in nature, like in Greek mythology? Can you name all the nymphs?

5. What's a wisp?

6. Are there other mainstream shapeshifters like the Selkie? And going along with that-

7. Where does the physical-attributes-associated-with-magical-beings thing come from? Does every magical being have a human form? Like how you said Selkies have dark eyes and hair, while wisps can be black-haired blue-eyed people. Who decides/decided which attributes go to which being, and does it vary by opinion/tradition?

Alright here we go.

1. No. Not all fairy folk are good. You can have good fairies and bad ones. The good ones are supposed to bring luck and joy, while the bad ones, or tricky ones are responsible for the little wrong things that happen on a day to day basis. For example, finding money on the ground is considered good, so therefore good fairy. While tripping in a puddle and falling is considered bad, So therefore bad fairy. It all depends on how superstitious the family is.
2. Some lore states that good spriggen are like little angels, while bad spriggen are more like mini goblins. Others say they look the same it all depends on the moon they were "born" under, othera say it's the plant they resemble, it's just a huge melting pot basically. It all depends on the area where the family is from though.
3. No. That's where some issues come into play. Sídhe are basically fairys. They live in little dirt mounds. (Song of the Sea, that little animated movie I mentioned, covers them, it's chock full of all the lore you want!) Maithe can pass as people. (If they are tall enough. Most can pass as children) they are very helpful, and they are known to turn around a bad day. The most common fae that the Celtic myths refer to are pixies, elves, banshees, brownies, goblins, and leprechauns. Other countries also have creatures that were later considered to be of the Fae, including satyrs, nymphs, valkyries, gnomes, sylphs, and even dwarves. It all depends on if the family goes with the old lore from the old world, or the new lore of the 20th century.
4. Nymphs are nature spirits. They can take male or feminine shape. They resemble the Greek versions, but the Celtic nymphs are more on the killing side than the pranking side. Greek nymphs were like into seducing men and then sleeping with them, Celtic nymphs were into seducing men, women, and children and then if they hurt the nymph and its home, oh it meant war. You weren't coming out alive. They went easy on children though. They took compassion on them and some may have been adopted and raised to protect the forest. No I cannot name all the nymphs 😂 new ones are "created" all the time.
5. Wisps are primarily Scottish. They float about a foot off the ground and they resembke tongues of blue flame. Once you get about 3 feet away from they they'll vanish. Their goal is to create a trail and lead you deeper and deeper into the forest so A.) The faeiries get you, or B.) You run into a kelpie. And you better hope A is the option. Faeiries can have compassion. Kelpies do not.
6. Yes. There are more shapeshifters. There is a long list of animals associated with shapeshifting in Irish mythology; the wolf, the selkie, the kelpie, the Puca, the swan, the crane,the butterfly, the salmon, the deer, the dog, and the pig/wild boar.
7. No one knows where it really came from, most say it was children who created it. Not every magical creature has a human form. Only the shifters and the fae do. But attributes can also be determined what someone was in a past life. (Now this is for the really hard core families, mostly near the Irish/Scottish border, because that's where "magic is the strongest, and lore bleeds in" It mainly depends on what the family decides the attributes to be. As far as I know, selkie is the widest one that is similar. Dark eyes, and dark hair. No one decides, it just it. It's what you look like against what people thing the beings look like. It's very likely to change over time. It all depends on who tells the tales. That's the real thing.
   I hope this helps! And as the Scots say,
   Gur math a thèid leat!
   (Good Luck!)

:D
Thank you so much! This is all so interesting. I watched Song of the Sea, and really enjoyed the lore and animation.

Hi, you told me in the other chat that I could be associated with a merrow according to my looks. Do you have any more info about them? I've never heard of them before ^^

Yes I do actually! They are celtic mermaids.
Merrow (from Irish murúch, Middle Irish murdúchann or murdúchu) is a mermaid or merman in Irish folklore. The term is of Irish-English origin. The merrows supposedly requires to have a magical cap (Irish: cochaillín draíochta; Irish-English: cohuleen druith) in its possession in order to travel between deep water and dry land. They also have spirit cages, which hold the spirits of the drowned. They are pretty cool, in my opinion.

A few more questions:
Is there a difference between wild forest nymphs and deep forest nymphs? Do you know any cool stories or tales involving nymphs? And to copy Young Dusty's inquiry, do you know anything extra about mountain nymphs?

So from what I was taught, everything was called a nymph. If it was in the Sea, a nymph, in the air, a nymph, the forest, a nymph. My grandmother was one of those women. But here we go. A mountain nymph is called an oread, a tree nymph is called a dryer, a freshwater nymph is a naiad, and a sea nymph is a nerid. (It came from Greek origin, but the Celts liked it. It's much easier to say a 8 letter name than a 16 letter name. They did it for ease, and for children to understand it better.) Regular forest nymphs are friendlier, and they dance and play in the sun, and enjoy life. The deep forest nymphs just stick to themselves. They are more violent, and they like to hang around the kelpies. Which in kelpies are freaking monsters. Don't go near them. I don't know any more than what I already know about mountain nymphs. They haven't been elaborated on as much as they should have been. As for stories, what are you looking for? Death? Destruction? Happiness? A wedding? Star crossed lovers?

Ooo thanks again, that's very cool. Any story is good, what are your favorites?
Ngl, this is inspiring a Celtic Rick Riordan rip-off in me lol

@Not_So_Polite_Anarchist
For curly brown hair and brown eyes, I would associate them with a selkie. It's just what I see.

Ooo thanks again, that's very cool. Any story is good, what are your favorites?
Ngl, this is inspiring a Celtic Rick Riordan rip-off in me lol

That's great. My favorite is the story of Mac Lir. And what happened to him.

It explains it very well in the Song of the Sea.

Neat neat. A few more questions- what attributes (hair/eye color) would you associate with a sea nymph, a freshwater nymph, a tree nymph, and an air/wind nymph?

A sea nymph, I would put with like a honey caramel brown hair and bright blue eyes.
A freshwater nymph, I would put with dirty brown green eyes with dirty blonde/brown hair.
A tree nymph, brown hair with dark undertones, and light caramel streaks in the too from being out in the sun. With the brightest leaf/emerald green eyes.
Air/wind nymph, blonde hair, almost fully bleached from being in the sun so often. And with the bluest eyes you have ever seen.

Interesting

My idea can be very different from others. You can ask others what their can be. Some may say that sea nymphs can have black hair and even blacker eyes. It all depends. I don't want to portray them as evil tho. Bc merrow can be portrayed as demonic figures of the Sea….

Are there any stories about morrow you know?

Yes. This is the one I've known for forever. Old Jack and Coo.

Old Jack Doherty was a kindly and good natured sort of fellow, as well he might be for he had chosen to live in a strange and desolate part of the country, by a coast of jagged rocks and sucking tides. And why might that be cause for merriment, you may ask? Well, it was many's the night and many's the storm that blew an unfortunate ship too close to the cliffs, whereupon she was torn asunder and her rich cargo scattered to the sea's embrace.
Jack scooped up kegs of fine brandy and bales of fabrics, cotton and tobacco, good casks of whiskey and bottles of fine wines from places he couldn't pronounce, and why not, he thought, sure isn't the king rich enough? His bay was like a private brewery all to himself, and his nets never lacked for fish either! He supplied half the estates in the county and lived well from those proceeds too.
His heart wasn't hard either mind you, he'd always sail out and help any drowning sailors he could find, or any that made it to shore were well looked after and sent on their way, dried out and fit.
So contrary to what might be expected on the face of it, he had no difficulty in finding himself a wife, and indeed Biddy Mahony lived as well as any and better than most, and made a proud appearance in the Church every Sunday.
As full as his life was, Jack had one desire that had never been fulfilled, and that was to meet a Merrow. The Merrow were the odd fishlike people who lived under the sea, and in all his years he'd never seen one, although his father and grandfather were well acquainted with the ocean folk. His grandfather was so close to them that he'd have brought one to mass, only for fear of vexing the priest! As often as not he'd sail out all day looking for one, for it was said that part of county Clare was well populated by them, and came back with no fish to show for his troubles, to face the wrath of Biddy.
Then one day he set out on in unusually rough weather, the seas were high and snapping, and he spied upon a distant rock what looked like a greenish figure wearing a cocked hat. Jack waited there, floating, and waited again but the figure didn't stir. Losing patience he let out a whistle, and startled, the figure leapt straight into the water, not to be seen again.
Knowing the way of it now, he went back to that rock when the wind was blowing hard and the sea was high as hills, and sure enough he spotted the same figure leaing in and out of the waves on those days. He took himself up to the rock for a closer look, and saw a green man with a fishtail for legs and short arms like fins, a red nose and small eyes like a pig. The red hat woven of feathers was off its head and it seemed to be giving some serious matter deep thought.
Interrupting the cogitations, Jack boldly set foot on the rock and called out a greeting!
"Your servant, sir," said Jack.
"Your servant, kindly, Jack Dogherty," answered the Merrow.
"To be sure, then, how well your honour knows my name!" said Jack.
"Is it I not know your name, Jack Dogherty? Why man, I knew your grandfather long before he was married to Judy Regan, your grandmother! Ah, Jack, Jack, I was fond of that grandfather of yours; he was a mighty worthy man in his time: I never met his match above or below, before or since, for sucking in a shellful of brandy. I hope, my boy," said the old fellow, with a merry twinkle in his eyes, "I hope you're his own grandson!"
'Never fear me for that," said Jack; "if my mother had only reared me on brandy, 'tis myself that would be a sucking infant to this hour!"
"Well, I like to hear you talk so manly, you and I must be better acquainted, if it were only for your grandfather's sake. But, Jack, that father of yours was not the thing! he had no head at all."
"I'm sure, said Jack, "since your honour lives down under the water, you must be obliged to drink a power to keep any beat in you in such a cruel, damp, could place. Well, I've often heard of Christians drinking like fishes; and might I be so bold as ask where you get the spirits?"
"Where do you get them yourself, Jack?" said the Merrow, twitching his red nose between his forefinger and thumb.
And so Jack became good friends with the Merrow, and they talked for a while before the Merrow departed back to his undersea home. Several times they met again, and Jack learned his name was Coomara, until one day the Merrow arrived with a second hat tucked under his arm.
"Might I take the liberty to ask, sir," said Jack, "why your honour has brought the two hats with you today? You would not, sure, be going to give me one of them, to keep for the curiosity of the thing?"
"No, no, Jack," said he, "I don't get my hats so easily, to part with them that way. But I want you to come down and dine with me, and I brought you that hat to dive with."
"Lord bless and preserve us!" cried Jack, in amazement, "would you want me to go down to the bottom of the salt sea ocean? Sure, I'd be smothered and choked up with the water, to say nothing of being drowned! And what would poor Biddy do for me, and what would she say?" "And what matter what she says, you pinkeen? Who cares for Biddy's squalling? It's long before your grandfather would have talked in that way. Many's the time he stuck that same hat on his head, and dived down boldly after me; and many's the snug bit of dinner and good shellful of brandy he and I have had together below, under the water." "Is it really, sir, and no joke?" said Jack; "why, then, sorrow from me for ever and a day after, if I'll be a bit worse man nor my grandfather was! Here goes - but play me fair now. Here's neck or nothing!" cried Jack. "That's your grandfather all over," said the old fellow; "so come along, then, and do as I do." So saying he tossed the hat to Jack, who put it on the right way, and sprang into the waves. Jack closed his eyes and sprang after, grabbing hold of the Merrow's tail and vanishing under the ocean. It was a long journey through the deeps, and often Jack had second thoughts as the miles rolled by, but it was too late to turn back now.
They came at last to a silver wall, and falling through Jack was astonished to find himself on dry land at the bottom of the sea. They landed just in front of a nice house that was slated very neatly with oyster shells! The Merrow, turning about to Jack, welcomed him down. He looked about him and could see no living things, barring crabs and lobsters, of which there were plenty walking leisurely about on the sand. Overhead was the sea like a sky, and the fishes like birds swimming about in it.
Well Jack gabbled on in wonderment for a bit, as well he might, and then he joined the Merrow in his house for dinner, a fine luncheon was awaiting and two young Merrows cooking at the hearth where a fire blazed warmly. They ate and drank and supped of good vintages from delicate shells, and anon the Merrow took Jack to see his cellar. At the back of the room was a shadowed place, and the Merrow turned to Jack as if to whisper a secret, and whisper he did. "Now Jack," he said, "would you like to see my Godsends?" And Jack went closer to see what looked like lobster pots arrayed on shelves at the back of the cellar. A chill took him then although he knew not why. "Well, Jack, how do you like my Godsends?" said old Coo. "Upon my oath, sir," said Jack, "they're mighty well worth the looking at. But might I make so bold as to ask what these things like lobster pots are?" "Oh! the Soul Cages, is it?" "The what? sir!""These things here that I keep the souls in." "Arrah! what souls, sir?" said Jack, in amazement, "sure the fish have no souls in them?" "Oh! no," replied Coo, quite coolly, "that they have not, but these are the souls of drowned sailors." "The Lord preserve us from all harm!" muttered lack, "how in the world did you get them?" "Easily enough: I've only, when I see a good storm coming on, to set a couple of dozen of these, and then, when the sailors are drowned and the souls get out of them under the water, the poor things are almost perished to death, not being used to the cold. So they make into my pots for shelter, and then I have them snug, and fetch them home, and is it not well for them, poor souls, to get into such good quarters?" Jack was nonplussed and not a little disturbed, but they retired above for brandy in the kitchen until he felt it was time to go back as his wife Biddy would be getting concerned. Coo the Merrow took him outside then and put his hat on backwards, telling him that he'd pop up right back where he went in, but to cast the hat into the sea after. And so it was, and so Jack did. He went home that night under the stars and spoke not a word of his adventures to Biddy, pondering deep on all he had seen. When next he met the Merrow then he proposed that the man of the sea might join him for dinner in return, knowing Biddy would be away that day, and the Merrow agreed cheerfully. "Don't fear for me Jack, I'll be there!" he said. And on the day, Jack laid out a fine spread with the finest vintages he could find, but as much as the Merrow put away he never quite keeled over with it. Aha, thought Jack, I've just the thing! Jack took care to have his own liquor well watered, and said, "Tell me, sir, did you ever drink any poteen? Any real mountain dew?" "No," says Coo, "what's that, and where does it come from?" "Oh, that's a secret," said Jack, "but it's the right stuff - never believe me again, if 'tis not fifty times as good as brandy or rum either!" The Merrow took a sup, and it was the good stuff alright, a brazen drop with fine smack. The Merrow drank and sang and laughed and danced until he fell asleep on the floor snoring. Jack crept up and lifted the hat from his head, sprang up from his seat and soon came to the Merrow's home under the waves. Not a person was in sight, only the crabs and lobsters making their way about their own business across the sand, so Jack went into the house to open the lobster pots in the back. As he did so he heard little chirps and whistles and was surprised, for the priests had told him that nobody could see or hear a soul, any more than they could see the wind. He said a prayer and blessed them on their journey, wherever they may go next. And now he set the hat on his head backwards, but was confounded! The water above was too high to reach and he couldn't leap into it. He was puzzled until he spied a massive cod swimming above, and its tail dipped down low for a moment. Seizing his chance he grabbed the tail and was flipped up into the water, and so whizzed home in a flash. As for home! Biddy had come back early and was upset to find all her poteen gone, thinking she'd married herself a drunkard, when she spotted the Merrow lying under the table and was aghast at the shape of him. Running from the house she was glad to hear Jack's cheery whistle as he ambled up the trail, and told her the whole story. Despite this turn of affairs Jack and the Merrow remained good friends thereafter, and the Merrow never missed the souls, until one day Jack threw stones into the water in the usual way, but the Merrow never showed up. Jack supposed he had passed on or moved away, and that was that. Although it is not certian, a wrecker's cove lay along the shores of county Clare as on the map.

Hope you enjoy! I have plenty more stories. I just got a full list of them from a very good friend. Her name is Saoirse. Pronounced (seer-sha)

have any stories on sprites?

One evening in late November, which is the time of year when the spirits of Ireland have the most power, the prettiest girl in all the land was going to the ancient well for water. Then, as chance would have it, her foot turned on a loose stone, and she fell. It was bad luck, but when she got back to her feet, it seemed as though she was in a strange place, and all around her was changed as if by magic!
That which was dark seemed lined with light, and faint wisps of blue stars twinkled around her head. Away in the distance she spied a great crowd gathered about a blazing bonfire, dancing and making merry, but they seemed to wear odd clothes of an old fashion. She felt herself drawn slowly towards them, and they fell silent, looking at her as she walked among them.
Suddenly her sense of wonder turned to fear, and she tried to flee, but found she could not! Then a handsome youth, dressed as richly as a prince, with a golden band on his hair, came to her and asked her to dance.
“It is a foolish thing you ask,” she said, “to dance when there is no music!”
Then he lifted his hand and made a sign to the people, and the air was filled with the sweetest music she had ever heard! The young man took her hand and they danced until the moon and stars went down, and she felt as though she was flying through the air, knowing nothing except the enchantment of the melody and the arms of her handsome partner.
At last the music faded, and she was invited to dinner with the party. The ground opened up before them and there were wide, gracious steps leading down into the earth. The young man, who seemed not to be their king, led them downwards to a great hall, furnished with gold and silver and rich, old wood.
The mighty table in the centre of the hall was bowed with the finest food and wine, dripping meat and steaming soup, succulent fruit from every corner of the world reflecting the merry candle light. She was weary, hungry and thirsty after her dance, and the young man told her that she should eat, lifting a grape to her lips.
But someone who seemed to be beneath the table whispered -
“Eat no food and drink no wine, or you will never reach your home again!”
So she put down her cup and pushed away the grape, causing the watching and expectant audience to burst out in anger, shouting and roaring. A fierce looking dark man she hadn't seen before rose up and said -
“Whoever comes to us, must drink with us!”
Then he grabbed her by the arm and held the wine to her lips, but she kept them closed tight shut no matter how much she trembled. Suddenly a red haired man jumped up beside her and pressed a herb into her hand.
“Take this,” he said, “and hold it in your hand until you get back home. None of them can touch you while you hold the Athair Luss, which your people call ground ivy.”
So she took it and held it tight, then ran as fast as her tired legs could carry her, along down the dark road with the sound of a crowd chasing after her. At long last in terror she reached her own home and locked and barred the door behind her, but it rattled in its frame as if many thumps and kicks were being laid on it!
“The power we had over you is gone through that herb that ties you to this world, but just you wait – when you dance again to the music on the hill, we'll be waiting, and then then you will stay with us forever more!” cried out a voice in the night.
But she kept that magic branch safely and the fairies never again troubled her, but I'll tell you this – it was a long time before the echoes of that fairy music left her mind, and the memories of that cold November dance with her fairy lover.