forum Character Critique Doctor
Started by @AmmyPajammy
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@SupernaturalSyGuyIsTIred group

@Syguy20132 mind if I say one thing about the "edgelord" jab?

I think she's right! But also wrong. Basically if you've got a character who's 16 who writes fanfic loves fall out boy and wants people to fear him, he's an edgelord. However, is that a bad thing? Nah, not it's done correctly! I know I was super edgy and angsty a year and a half ago (when I was 16) screaming twenty one pilots on a ukulele and hating my life… so, yeah. I think it's realistic. As long as you don't try to make him too "cool" of a character, you're okay.

I kinda want to do a full critique! Later on (when I finally get my laptop in the mail) I'll make a character critique thread like this one. If you want, I'll do yours too!

It wasn't necesssarily her calling Jason an 'edgelord' that offended me; it was the fact that she was insinuating that I didn't know what an edgelord was, even though she meant it as a joke…. I know; I remeber what it was like being nothing but a ball of angst. I still listen to FOB, and other bands for that genre. Yeah, you may take a go at Jason when you get your laptop. It's helpful to have more than one person critique a character (or anything else, really)! :-)

@AmmyPajammy

@Snowmirror The wait is now over, so let's take a look at Anput.

Looks

The least interesting? She's a girl with a jackal for a head! If that's not interesting, then what is? Seriously, that is a very interesting design choice and something that you definitely don't see every day. When most people think about animal people, they either think "cute waifu anime girl with ears and a tail" or "sexy furry anthropomorphic animal" so you have no idea how refreshing it is to see an animal person design that is not inherently sexual.

Because Anput's race is so different, I think putting her weight is important. Are Inpu naturally heavier than humans? Lighter? Or is their weight generally on par with humans of the same size?

Also, not a critique but just a suggestion: I think you should put an identifying mark that's inherent to her race like how Kamith has his sun and moon marks. It'll make Anput more visually interesting, and distinguish her from others of her race. I popped over to the Inpu's page, and I see that they all are relatively similar, so I think Anput needs something that helps her stand out. Some jewelry? A tattoo? Maybe a scar that she received as she was escaping from her country?

Nature

Her mannerisms are good, but I was wondering about her patting her dress: what exactly does that mean? Not to say it's bad, but I just can't picture it in my head.

Her motives, what sense of justice did she develop? Does she want revenge? Does she now think that killing enemies is wrong? This is the part where your character breaks down somewhat. She's a main character, so unless this is a character-driven story with a plot that is only designed to further the characters, Anput really needs a motive that drives her character towards a goal. I know that she hates her government, but what of it? Does she want revenge against them? Does she think that it's corrupt and wants it overthrown? Think of motivations as the driving force of a character in a story towards a tangible goal. By the stories end, where will she end up? What would she have accomplished, or even failed to do? This is especially important when there are multiple main characters at once; if one doesn't have any goals, the other characters will overtake her in importance and precedence, and she'll just fade into the background. The motives that she has now are too vague to be anything that is driving her towards something. They make sense from a character perspective, but from a story perspective, she needs something more concrete.

In what ways is she self-righteous, as in, what exactly does she believe that she thinks that others would benefit from if only they'd just listen to her? And in what ways is she hypocritical? I saw that even though she dislikes her government, she's still fond of her country, so that's something, but is there anything else? Just explain that, and her flaws are golden.

It's just my opinion, but I think her prejudice would be more streamlined and make more sense in you just said that she distrusts government in general. It would make sense for her character. After all, she doesn't trust Seamline or the Wilds, and she ran away from her own government after what they did to her mother, so I don't see a character like that trusting anyone.

What about detective work is she good at? While I only know about it from Batman and Detective Pikachu, I know that quite a bit goes into it. Is she good at interrogating people? Sniffing out clues (pun totally intended)? Deductive reasoning? Be a bit more specific. Also, does her talent for embalming ever come in handy in her line of work? I don't see how it could, but if I may I wanna make a suggestion. You know what other skill that she would have most likely learned as an embalmer? How to prep a dead body. And you know what that would help with? Identifying causes of death.

No complaints about her hobbies.

You said that she's naturally kind and generous, but she's also fake; how does that work? Does she overcompensate to make people like her more? I know that you said that she has a hard time maintaining this around people that she doesn't like, but that's true for anyone, so there must be something more to it if she can reasonably be described as "fake". All other problems that I had in her flaws also apply here. Other than that, she has a strong personality; she just needs a solid framework to hang it on, that framework being her primary objective.

Social

Is there something special about the flower crystal? I saw on its item page that it was given to her by someone important to her, but does it do anything? Does she do anything with it?

She's a jackal-headed former priestess of a death god who shoots guns? In the 1910s? Where do I get in line to pre-order? Seriously, make this girl the badass that I know she is! Give her a warrior culture schtick or something. I know it's a little cliche, but honestly, at this point, her character could benefit from a cliche or two.

Also, as an aside, do normal humans exist in this world and does this detective agency interact with them? I'm gonna assume that it does, and I apologize if I was already supposed to know this, I forgot something in between critiques. But if so, what trials and tribulations does Anput face being so obviously abnormal? And even among magical kind, does she ever face any prejudice or downright racism? How does she move among normal people? Does she have to wear a hood? Is there a magical glamour that makes her seem human? How does she feel about her appearance? is she proud of her looks and doesn't care what anyone else thinks? Or does she sometimes feel like a freak? What are the beauty standards of her race? Would she have been considered beautiful to her people? If so, is there any dissonance that she has to endure living among people who might not think the same? Just some food for thought.

History

Solid. That's a backstory is I ever saw one. Having to embalm one's own mother? Couldn't be me. A+!

So all in all, Anput is a good character, but I think the problem that you're having is that she doesn't have a solid motivation that makes her relevant to not just the plot, but her own group of partners/friends. What goals are they working towards, and how does her goal differ from it? Therein lies the drama, and as we all know, stories are driven by drama. Now, I don't wanna be insensitive to Anput and her kind, so I'm not gonna give her something like dog treats or a bone. Inpu are people, so I'll give her this flower sticker since she seems to like them ❤️️

@AmmyPajammy

@Syguy20132 Seriously, you have a talent for writing summaries because your blurbs are always short, sweet, punchy, and to the point.

But speaking of the point, about Levi, there's almost nothing in her character sheet. I understand that you're working on him, but I can't invent a whole character for you since I don't know exactly what kind of person that you want him to be. I mean, I could, and if that's what you want me to do, then I'd be more than happy to. I have over 140 unique characters under my belt, and that's just for a single universe, so if you want a character-creating machine, I'm as close as you're gonna get. But you gotta specify exactly what you want from me because I can't create something from nothing.

In the meantime, I'll critique the only two things that I can, his looks and his history, but I do hope that you resubmit him to me after you've worked on him a little bit more.

Looks

Right now, he's very generic. There's not much that distinguished him any run-of-the-mill white guy with brown hair. How tall is he? What's his body type? Anything? This character needs a lot of work.

History

His backstory reminds me of a Stephen King protagonist, so if that's what you were going for, you nailed it. The only thing I think can be improved is if you mention where or how he got/discovered his psychic powers since that's more relevant to his character.

So yeah, that's all I can really do. I hope you finish him soon.

@AmmyPajammy

Ok, Rory, I tried. I swear I did, but I'm having so much trouble understanding the correlation between your universe and the literal devil that I don't think I can properly do this. I want to help you, but I think I'm gonna need a little bit more than what your blurb provided me. Why is the devil in your story, specifically? What was the thought process behind putting him, and by extension, his wife, in the main antagonistic role? If you help me out, I think I can help you. But only then. I'm very sorry about that, but I'm only human.

@Lightningclaw13 group

Hey, it's me again. I hope you don't mind but since you're amazing at critiquing, I wanted you to do another one of my characters. This is my main villain and a very scarred boi.
Tristan: Tristan Bowyer
He's from the same story so the blurb is the same.
(I'll put it here so you won't have to go back and look for it.)

Blurb about story: Since the universe began, two entities have been fighting. One is a being of Light, the other Darkness. No mortal knows why they've been fighting but legends say it was a lover's quarrel. Every 100 years, the Dark Being is brought back to the mortal realm to try and destroy the world by taking control of their chosen puppet. The Light being is brought back as well, to fend the Dark Being off by taking control of their chosen hero. Every time they clashed, the beings never could destroy each other. In this story, it tells of one of these times.
(It's set in a medieval-like era but with more modern clothes and has some elemental, mental and healing magic)

@Oniyuri

Can you do my main?Invalid Character

Summary wise- she's from a universe that's both modern and medieval in a sense. As there is kingdoms but also advanced technology and such. In this universe there are magical creatures along with humans.

Rory

Ok, Rory, I tried. I swear I did, but I'm having so much trouble understanding the correlation between your universe and the literal devil that I don't think I can properly do this. I want to help you, but I think I'm gonna need a little bit more than what your blurb provided me. Why is the devil in your story, specifically? What was the thought process behind putting him, and by extension, his wife, in the main antagonistic role? If you help me out, I think I can help you. But only then. I'm very sorry about that, but I'm only human.

Oh I'm so sorry. The devil isn't the main antagonist, people generally accept his existence more than in our universe and he embodies impurity but he has little dominion over the mortal plane because it would require too much energy to travel from Hell to the planet where 'Noriko' is based. So instead he has arch demons (such as his wife/concubine Lilith) to send into the mortal plane (via rituals by devout worshippers) and wreak havoc. I didn't want the Big Man himself to be the villain because that would be boring, demons in my story aren't just little balls of evil, they have emotions and nice parts to them and start out decent but are corrupted by being in Hell for so long. Years of being second best to Satan and being used for nothing but his pleasure has embittered Lilith and she doesn't just want to be the succubus/sex demon anymore, sure she uses sex as a weapon but only to revitalise herself and she doesn't want to be a male fantasy, she wants to be Queen of Hell. Unfortunately she first had to prove herself to Satan after a betrayal (mentioned in her background) and tried to kill the Hamadas, she succeeded in killing the father but the mother sacrificed herself to destroy Lilith. Years of being trapped in her incorporeal form made her obsess over Noriko, the Hamada who hadn't been killed. I thought it would be interesting to show Lilith as a demon who is only the way she is because of Satan's abuse, not because of her status as a demon, and that she can be sympathetic.

@AmmyPajammy

Rory, I understand the character, but in what seems to be a more of a science fiction adventure, do you really think that the Devil/demons are a good fit for it? Maybe it would make more sense in context, but for now, I'm just not seeing it. Lilith as a character is fine, and if this was a different kind of story, then it would be ok. But she really seems so out of place in the universe. Maybe it's just a hurdle that I personally can't get over, but I really think that you should think long and hard about if it's really, truly necessary to have this kind of character in your story. Don't get me wrong, it's a unique concept, but not all genre mashups are peanut butter and chocolate if you get my drift.

@AmmyPajammy

@Lightningclaw13 STOP, do not pass go, do not collect $200. Immediately I saw that you made Tristian, the antagonist character, darker than Jasmine, your protagonist. The good=white and bad=dark is such a tired and played out dichotomy trope, and it's actually quite offensive. I know that you didn't mean to do this, but I would really go back and change it if I were you. In fact, I strongly recommend it.

In fact, I looked at as many of your characters as I could, and I see that most of the bad guys are darker skinned than the good guys, and that is no bueno. That is really all I can say. Before you do anything to fix your characters, you should really fix that, because it's 2018 and I thought we were off of that by now.

@AmmyPajammy

Oniyuri, because you have no history or even a universe that your character's attached to, I can't do a proper critique. it doesn't matter what traits you give her, if there's no context, then it doesn't mean much. Characters don't exist in a vacuum, they exist in a world, so if I know knowing this about her story, there's not much that I can do for you. Who is she? What's her story? Why does she do anything? What is her purpose in the story? Who are the people around her that she interacts with? What outside forces are trying to prevent her from achieving her goal? What inside forces are doing the same? These are only a few of the questions that you need to answer before I can even begin to critique her.

@AmmyPajammy

@Syguy20132 You know what? Even though Lux is a work in progress, I actually like the direction that he's headed! I can't really say much, but his concept in intriguing. A dethroned king that's cursed to become evil every so often and has to restrain himself on his quest to take back the throne? Solid concept. Keep working on him and make his characteristics a bit more unique to him, and you'll have quite the character on your hands. I can sympathize with a guy like this. He may lose his way, but if he has an indomitable spirit and is remorseful, I wish him the best.

@SupernaturalSyGuyIsTIred group

@Syguy20132 You know what? Even though Lux is a work in progress, I actually like the direction that he's headed! I can't really say much, but his concept in intriguing. A dethroned king that's cursed to become evil every so often and has to restrain himself on his quest to take back the throne? Solid concept. Keep working on him and make his characteristics a bit more unique to him, and you'll have quite the character on your hands. I can sympathize with a guy like this. He may lose his way, but if he has an indomitable spirit and is remorseful, I wish him the best.

Well, we have found an anti-hero character that you actually like! :-)

@SupernaturalSyGuyIsTIred group

Here's the last one that I wanted you to critique! Go ahead and do an 'in depth' critique for him if you want. Thank you for all the hard work! :-)

WILLIAM: https://www.notebook.ai/plan/characters/384845#
BLURB: A human summons a demon, and sells his soul so that the demon may act not only as the man's son but hitman as well. Along the way William, and his coworkers face off against gangs, hunters, deities, and secret government organiztions. Will they kill all who get in their way? Who will survive?

@Lightningclaw13 group

@Lightningclaw13 STOP, do not pass go, do not collect $200. Immediately I saw that you made Tristian, the antagonist character, darker than Jasmine, your protagonist. The good=white and bad=dark is such a tired and played out dichotomy trope, and it's actually quite offensive. I know that you didn't mean to do this, but I would really go back and change it if I were you. In fact, I strongly recommend it.

In fact, I looked at as many of your characters as I could, and I see that most of the bad guys are darker skinned than the good guys, and that is no bueno. That is really all I can say. Before you do anything to fix your characters, you should really fix that, because it's 2018 and I thought we were off of that by now.

Wow, I never thought anyone would be so….offended(?) by skin color. I'm genuinely shocked. I never even thought that how skin color affects how good a person is. I think you're the first person to ever say anything about that. If it helps, 3 out of the 4 villains will turn good. 1 will turn completely good by the end and the other 2 will be anti-heroes.

@AmmyPajammy

@Lightningclaw13 Making evil characters darker-skinned, even if they find redemption later on in the story, is a trope that has very deep roots in racist storytelling. I know that's a word that gets thrown around a lot, but as a person of color, I think I'm qualified to speak on it. The trope itself is a dog whistle, something that the average person wouldn't pick up on, but those in the known understand perfectly. It's not something that people think much about anymore, but the fact still remains that it is a bad trope. Take, for example, say, Ganondorf from Nintendo's classic game, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Ganondorf is the King of All Evil, and he is the darkest person there. In fact, I think it was even implied in some outside material that his evil is what made him so dark. And he wasn't alone; the race that he came from, the Gerudo, were a tribe of dark-skinned thieves. Did Nintendo mean to be offensive? I'm almost 100% sure that they didn't. Was it still offensive? oh absolutely. The way they say it, making his dark was an easy way to get across visually that he's evil, and it worked. However, tying evil to dark skin hurts real people in real life, so it's something that is generally frowned upon today. People unfortunately still do it, and it sucks every time they do, but I recognize that a lot of people are unaware of what they're doing. That's why I said something to you. I hope you don't take it as me tearing you down because I swear that I'm not. I just wanted to bring this to your immediate attention.

If you need to talk more about it, I ask that you inbox me so as not to clutter the thread.

@SupernaturalSyGuyIsTIred group

@Lightningclaw13 Making evil characters darker-skinned, even if they find redemption later on in the story, is a trope that has very deep roots in racist storytelling. I know that's a word that gets thrown around a lot, but as a person of color, I think I'm qualified to speak on it. The trope itself is a dog whistle, something that the average person wouldn't pick up on, but those in the known understand perfectly. It's not something that people think much about anymore, but the fact still remains that it is a bad trope. Take, for example, say, Ganondorf from Nintendo's classic game, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Ganondorf is the King of All Evil, and he is the darkest person there. In fact, I think it was even implied in some outside material that his evil is what made him so dark. And he wasn't alone; the race that he came from, the Gerudo, were a tribe of dark-skinned thieves. Did Nintendo mean to be offensive? I'm almost 100% sure that they didn't. Was it still offensive? oh absolutely. The way they say it, making his dark was an easy way to get across visually that he's evil, and it worked. However, tying evil to dark skin hurts real people in real life, so it's something that is generally frowned upon today. People unfortunately still do it, and it sucks every time they do, but I recognize that a lot of people are unaware of what they're doing. That's why I said something to you. I hope you don't take it as me tearing you down because I swear that I'm not. I just wanted to bring this to your immediate attention.

If you need to talk more about it, I ask that you inbox me so as not to clutter the thread.

However, it is a good thing to have different characters with different skin tones and of ethnicities.

@AmmyPajammy

@Syguy20132 I'm so sorry, but your critique is gonna take some time because I'm an idiot and I wrote out the whole thing thinking that "William" was a person that was possessed by a demon, not the actual demon itself. I misunderstood your blurb and I wasted so much time and I'm so sorry.

@SupernaturalSyGuyIsTIred group

@Syguy20132 I'm so sorry, but your critique is gonna take some time because I'm an idiot and I wrote out the whole thing thinking that "William" was a person that was possessed by a demon, not the actual demon itself. I misunderstood your blurb and I wasted so much time and I'm so sorry.

That's fine. Take your time!

@SupernaturalSyGuyIsTIred group

@Syguy20132 I'm so sorry, but your critique is gonna take some time because I'm an idiot and I wrote out the whole thing thinking that "William" was a person that was possessed by a demon, not the actual demon itself. I misunderstood your blurb and I wasted so much time and I'm so sorry.

I could clear that up in the blurb, though I don't really have to. It'll make the story that more interesting with the reveal that how William appears is his 'actual' appearence!

@AmmyPajammy

@Syguy20132 In-depth critique take-two:

Looks

Ok, so, it's more than a little obvious that you have a character design that you like, because William's design shares traits with your other characters, namely being tall and the stubble. I understand liking a certain style, but it makes all of your characters seem a little samey. Do they all really need stubble? Why not a full-on beard? Or a mustache, or something? Do they all have to be tall and muscular? He's a hitman, so it makes sense on why he would be this way, but it's just something that I think you should keep in mind going forward. Also, why does he dye his hair? Does he think it'll make him look better? Or is it naturally like that because he's a demon?

Nature

His mannerisms are kinda… I don't wanna say generic because that's not the word I'm looking for. Don't most people smile when they see something they enjoy or find humorous? You said some time ago that you make your mannerisms realistic, which would be fine if you were writing a story about characters set in our nonfictional real world. But this isn't a nonfiction, and characters need to be interesting well before they're "realistic". This is a world where people can summon demons to ax people; I think a little flamboyancy is in order. If I were a demon, I would be living it up and showing off at every opportunity! I mean, who could stop me? I'm literally a demon! I think William would really benefit from being made to be more dynamic of a character. It may make him slightly less likable, but if you can pull it off, he'd be a more fun character than you initially realized.

As far as his motives, they make sense because, hey? Demons are gonna demon. But how does this fit with him being an anti-hero? After all, anti-heroes, while they go about things in ways that might make more boy scouty heroes blush, ultimately want to help people. William doesn't seem like he gives a flying [REDACTED] about anyone other than himself, and/or whoever he deems worthy of his attention, and what he finds pleasurable. He seems like he'll just kill anyone for the heck of it, and if that's true, what is stopping him from going after innocent people? He seems like a wholly evil character, and actual evil characters don't make for good heroes. If he's not wholly evil, then what are his redeeming qualities? That's one thing that most people forget when it comes to writing anti-heroes: they have to actually have parts of them that are likable. I don't like this guy (as a person, not as a character). I wouldn't trust this guy as far as I could throw him. If I needed help, what would make me, an innocent, easily-killable human, ask this guy for help?

….he really just has his whole [REDACTED] out like that? Well, I did say more flamboyancy, so I guess I can't complain. But I have to ask, why? And when? Does he ever get his comeuppance for this? Or any comeuppance at all? One major problem with characters like this is that by the story's end, they never grow and change because they don't have to. The narrative never forces them to change and they never learn from their mistakes (unless that mistake involves how to more efficiently kill people), so just keep that in mind.

His prejudices make sense for a demon, but does he ever grow past this? I know I sound like a broken record at this point, but it really needs to be repeated: what makes this guy sympathetic?

His talents are fine. I don't have to tell you to make sure that he's not too overpowered in the story, so I won't. But it would probably be beneficial for you to list what his weaknesses are somewhere on the sheet for reference.

A demon who likes to read, huh? Surely he doesn't read human literature, or else that would fly in the face of him thinking all human are useless meatbags. Unless he's a hypocrite and actually gives us credit for something, even if it's just classic literature. So what does he like to read and why? Also, can making fun of someone really be considered a hobby? Unless he goes above and beyond and tries to play physical pranks on his father on a near daily basis, I'm not so sure.

Wait, so he cares about his co-workers and animals? How does that work? What's the extent of his caring, and why those things specifically? Are his co-workers human? Or just more demons that he pals around with? If he doesn't care about his "father", then why does he listen to him? Or does he not have a choice? This is something that you really should expand upon because it's the only thing separating him from being a troubled guy who cares a little about what he's doing, and an absolute tool.

Social

All good. I like the "non-human characters enjoy human junk food" trope.

As an aside, I couldn't help but notice that your characters dislike people but like animals. You might wanna shake that up a little bit because it's a cliche not just at large, but to you personally. I know that you need an easy indicator that deep down your characters aren't all bad, but there are other cute things out there, like children. Or maybe they are particularly sympathetic towards women that are domestic violence victims, or something, anything else.

History

I'm sure you were anticipating this, but I'll say it anyway: he needs a backstory. Him just being a demon is not enough. How old is he? Did he enjoy living in Hell? What kind of demon is a "Prince of Hell"? Was he living it up and then he got ripped away and forced to do some human jerk's bidding? Or was he looking for an escape already? Did he have a love interest or a family that he left behind? All of these questions and more should be answered in his background.

All in all, William is a good villainous character, but a poor anti-hero. He needs more things about him that make him likable. And if him being unlikable was the point, then that means that you need to really flesh out his human handler, George. Who's that guy, and why did he go to such extreme measures to accomplish his goals? Or, make his co-workers so likable that William is just the token evil teammate, but that has a chance of downplaying his prominence, so keep that in mind. Here are two hospital gowns for him to cover up the boys ❤️️