forum [critique this little snippet i wrote!!]

Started May 27, 2018 by @pallas-athena

tune

Hold up. I'm sorry. But is, perchance, 'black cat' based off 'cat noir' from miraculous ladybug?

I love that show so much and im "not supposed to" or whatever because im "too old"

ninja_violinist -

https://docs.google.com/document/d/18Bm5EjV7–szFf0SeSAXojhMHd_9kFokZ-5qm616orQ

google doc gods, please take pity on me and make this link work.
instead of copying it straight from my post, try quoting me and then copying the link. it seems to work for me that way? (basically i quoted myself without posting and then copied the link to paste in the search bar, because clicking on the link doesn’t seem to work and/or copying it from my actual post preview doesn’t work either? which is weird, considering that i do have link sharing on n this is the exact link google docs gave me. oh well!).

again, please don’t try and read all of it, there’s a lot. it was made for my personal use as a sort of writing storage, so it’s unorganized and there’s a to-do list at the beginning that you can just skip over - it’s not important lmao

• ah, grammar. alexa, shoot me
• i’ll go read through that cesspool of a chapter and try and fix any i see!
• thank you! i’m really glad it came through with some more characterization. to be honest, i was genuinely considering deleting all of it and then reworking that specific area again, mostly because i thought it sounded awfully like the cliche beginning to a stereotypical YA novel where the narrator (usually a female around phoebe age, give like one or two years) states that she’s unattractive and has no friends or whatever (even though she is, most likely, very attractive).
• i originally didn’t even realize i was venturing dangerously close into cliche YA novel starter chapter until i started researching for typical cliches in books so i knew what to avoid, and then came the YA cliche, and i looked at my writing, and back at the article, and back at my writing, and i was like “well crap”
• like, really. there’s a lot of red flags in the beginning section of the chapter:
• “an uneventful and friendless freshman year followed by an equally uneventful and friendless summer” wow, phoebe, you have no friends? that’s really unique. it’s not like every other 15-17 year old female narrator also has no friends hahahahahaha
• i even did that good ol’ “i’m not smart and not dumb, i’m just average” thing without realizing it (source: that one paragraph that starts with “Phoebe was very quiet”)
• and also i did the classical “i’m just so average looking” thing. (source: phoebe is described as plain in appearance)
• like wow, [gently brushes hand above the first chapter of my book, wafting its smell towards me like a professional italian chef/judge on a cooking show might do with the contestants’ food] smell the cliche
• conclusion: https://i.imgur.com/kuymgcH.jpg
• i would’ve definitely just kept these things about phoebe not wanting to socialize or her being average outwardly if it weren’t such a common narrative trope in writing. i do like to think that the rest of the book will be okay - i can’t really foresee any more evident cliche-y parts - but a first chapter is a deal maker or a deal breaker and it’s important for me to really make it shine. i know that when i’m looking at a new book, i’ll read through the entire first chapter, and then from there, i either put it back on the shelf or it comes with me out of the library.
• i’d love your feedback on how i might be able to cut that section out entirely and replace it with something else that might characterize phoebe just as well, or on how cliche it really is and if it’s a passable kind of cliche. i know that in a lot of books i read, there’s an abundance of cliche at times, but i like the book so much that those parts are more fun than annoying.
• anyhow, thank you so much for you for the compliments!! i’m flattered!! good to know that even though i’ve landed into the cliche YA novel beginning pitfall, i’ve managed to avoid others along the way :”D
• honestly i’ve thought of talking with other people on this site and asking them for critique, but my first chapter is like 8k words and it’s not even that good. i feel terrible waddling up to them and being like “hhhhheeeeeeeeeEEYYYYYY wanna see the first chapter (and it’s 8k words by the way) on the first book i’ve ever tried writing”
• not everybody has the time to read that much, but at the same time i don’t want to take out chunks of the story for them to criticize, because i feel like you need to read the entire thing in its whole to get the full feeling.
• conclusion: when i stop being a coward i’ll stop pestering you and i’ll find them myself for them to critique me :”D thank you for offering to get them here though!!

Rumplestiltskin -

aha, she isn’t, actually! i didn’t know that miraculous ladybug was a thing until ninja_violinist mentioned it to me earlier in this thread. black cat is based off of the chinese myth surrounding how the animals for the chinese zodiac were chosen. essentially how it goes is that a emperor/goddess of some sort announces that the first twelve animals to meet her/him/them/whatever at this specific point early tomorrow morning will be chosen for the zodiac. the cat wants to be part of the zodiac, but he knows his tendency to oversleep, so he asks his friend, the rat, to wake him up tomorrow morning.

the next morning, either the rat purposely doesn’t wake the cat up or the rat just forgets to wake him up - either way, the rat doesn’t wake the cat up and sets off to go meet the emperor/goddess person across the river and gets there first. the cat is so angry with the rat that he tries to kill the rat on sight whenever they meet again, and that’s supposedly the tale behind why all cats today absolutely despise rats/rodents of any kind.

i think you can find the tale if you google something along the lines of “the myth behind the chinese zodiac”. the actual name for the myth is called “the great race”.

anyhow, that’s where i got black cat’s name, because the cat in that tale sure sounds like villain material. nowhere does it state that it’s a black cat in the tale, but i made it black cat because black cats already have negative connotations (bad luck) and “black cat” sounds much more like a villain name than just “cat”.

Greetings!
My laptop has been forgiven because it finally opened the link and I had twenty or so minutes of happiness as I read through your detail stockpile.

• Coincidentally I happen to have far too much unorganised research, and I actually found something in my files on one of the topics in your list on "stuff to research"! (I can't believe it either) (when did I start finding stuff I'm searching for??)
  https://www.dropbox.com/s/gfgtfhf8zu4f3bh/Writing%20Blood%20Loss.docx?dl=0
  It's a little snippet from a super helpful article about writing realistic injuries that I found like a year ago. It includes both the effects of losing a certain volume of blood (including mental state, state of extremities, etc) and the likely amount of blood lost depending on the site and severity of injury. I hope this can at least be somewhat helpful
• Also
• My heart shattered a tiny bit in that "hypothetical deaths" section
• aaaaaaah that is hardcore
• Specifically in the virgo section
• Have you been taking lessons in how to be cruel to your readers??? This is like some
  Spoiler - click to show.

  Finnick Odair or Prim
  level of unfair and heartrending (whoops spoiler warning for the Hunger Games)

• killing only polly is better than killing both of the grayling twins because they’re siblings and established to be a pair, so it’ll be better for only one of them to die

• "better"
  Remind me not to cross you or upset you like ever
• On another note, I really love the Angela/Everest subplot!! That's exactly the sort of thing I, as a reader, would want to agonise about parallel to the whole superhero stuff because I can already see myself tossing the book across the room if Angela and Everest fight. And books you toss across the room are the sort of books that frequent my reading lists, if you know what I mean

Tbh I never even considered the cliche aspect of the reworked first chapter. I thought it was fine, but I guess you do make an excellent point that the first chapter has to draw the reader in and give a preview of what's about to come. Maybe "fine" isn't enough, idk
You have several options that you could go for at this point, as I see them:

• Delete the first chapter and replace it with:
  a) A less cliche opening that still highlights Phoebe's character and the exposition but in a less conventional way (maybe highlighting different aspects of her or portraying these elements in a new way)
  b) Opening with something entirely different, such as an action scene/ school scene/ etc which allows you to sprinkle in exposition on the go while assuming that the reader can just catch up later
  c) Opening with a different character entirely, someone who you think wouldn't match the profile you're trying to avoid (would probably not recommend this one since Phoebe is your MC and if she's not strong enough to carry the first chapter then she might not be strong enough to carry the whole story) (wow that sounded harsher than intended) (I hope you know what I mean)
• Leave the first chapter, either to
  c) Press on with the rest of the story and come back to it later when you have a better idea of what tone you're trying to foreshadow (so leaving it as sort of a placeholder for now, with the intention of deleting it/giving it a complete makeover later)
  d) Hope that the readers don't mind the red cliche flags and leave the chapter as is (obviously it'll be revised once you finish the entire first draft, but keeping the general feel of it as it is now)

So yeah.
That wasn't even news to you, probably. Here are some more options (designed, once again, to give you ideas on what possibilities you have rather than being expectations of what I think you should do, if that makes sense)

• Possibility: You start out with the flashback and work your way forward somehow??? idk that doesn't make a lot of sense
• Possibility: You start out with the embarrassing memories that Phoebe's trying to repress (though that would set a very different tone from the rest of the story unless you managed to somehow sprinkle in superhero stuff along the way)
• Possibility: You give her different motivations/outlook - for example, "I have all these superhero friends, let's see if I can't find any of them irl in school because they seem sort of my age" (cue disaster)
• Possibility:
  uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
  The first fight against the robot???
• Possibility: The cliche (okay so never mind but I'll still say it in case you can put a new spin on this) prologue with the shadowy villain and then pan to the unsuspecting MC
• Idk
• My recommendation would be not to stress yourself too much about the first chapter! Depending on your ideal workflow, it's totally ok not to write in chronological order and to come back to the first chapter once you're more comfortable with it. From the length of your to-do list I gather that you have other things you could busy yourself with, and expanding on your universe or writing later chapters might give you a better understanding of what you want the first chapter to contain
• (idk why I'm acting like I know what I'm doing here, I've rewritten a first chapter 17 times and never got anywhere with the rest of the story) (this may not be the best thing to tell someone I'm trying to give advice to) (but in the interest of fairness and not sounding like a complete snob) (~Disclaimer: I 100% have no idea what I'm doing either)
• Basically it sounds like I'm telling you to procrastinate on writing the first chapter
• If anything in this long rambly mess was helpful, then feel free to give it a try! Otherwise, I'm really sorry that I wasn't helpful about this

So as it turns out, coincidence would have it that the person I was referring to earlier already lowkey stalked some of this thread! (don't ask me how I know these things) (this entire situation is so bizarre) (I haven't stopped thinking about this for days now)
I dunno, I guess maybe they'll come out of hiding now that I've mentioned this? Or they stopped stalking and will only come when called? Who knows! (I certainly don't)
Either way, it's up to you to share whatever you're comfortable with with whomever you're comfortable with. The last thing I'd want is for you to feel pressured by me into sharing this before you're ready, or into sharing it at all if you don't want to

Oh btw
Congratulations on two pages to this thread! * cue party hangers and confetti *
Here's to not having to scroll as much (for now, at least)!

Thanks for the clarification ninja. Periwinkle, ME TOO! I'm in seventh grade and still binge watch it because it's THE BEST.

I would like to add on to ninja once more. Yup, it's cliche all over. However, if you don't want to make her outstanding, an easy fix is to just model her after yourself. We aren't 'average' or 'outstanding', none of us. There is literally no single scent of cliche in us. None. Nada. Zero. Plus, you'll know her a lot better than you know a FOTB character (fresh out the box (not modeled after anyone else)).

ninja_violinist -

hey hey hey! sorry for randomly disappearing - it’s getting close to the time that i should be preparing for school and whatnot, so that’s what i’ve been doing these past few days.

• oooh, thank you so much! i know nothing abt blood loss so this will be very helpful. honestly, beyond zodiacs and mythology and misc details, i literally haven’t researched anything else for this story (which is really concerning)
• tbh i know nothing about how to make a character’s death sad, this is just my brain spewing out random ideas on how to try and make them sad. if there was a lesson on how to be cruel to readers i’d probably sign up because i probably need the help
• LMAOOOO i’m not really even that intimidating in real life. i guarantee you that if i somehow met with you in real life and for whatever reason, you feel like punching me into next tuesday, you could definitely do it. i’m very light and easy to pick up :”D
• eeeyyyy, glad to see that it wasn’t a bad subplot idea!! i was hoping i could stick in some more academy kids at phoebe’s school (well, more like i was hoping i could somehow make one of the civilian zodiacs’ backgrounds be involved with the academy) but considering how prestigious it is, i don’t have a good reason why they’d be at a regular public school and not at the academy (unless they were also expelled lmao)
• i think right now i’ll stick with what i had! over the past few days i did some new intros to try out different perspectives, and so far none of them work for me/they’re all trash. that’s probably just a product of my extremely low level of writing skill, but for now i’ll just go and work on the plotholes in the plot and procrastinate the fixing of the first chapter :”D
• thank you for these suggestions, though!! right now i still am lowkey trying to write new intros so this gives me even more options to test out
• don’t mind me, i’m just copy pasting ur entire post into a google doc for future reference
• more stalkers, woot woot

anyhow, that’s really all i have to say! there’s still new additions to the story, but they’re very tiny, insignificant details (like a whole ton of new siblings for cecilia and civilian pisces finally has a first name - i’ve also figured out a last name for both phoebe n cecilia. finally) and i’m not gonna mention them here because i don’t think they’re worthy of a giant post. i’ll definitely be making new additions to the detail stockpile google doc, though, so check that out if ur interested in hearing even more garbage from me!! also twenty-two stars might change every once in a while. i might as well rename that chapter to “twenty-two times” because that’s probably how many times i’ve edited it (might even be more than that)

anyways, thank you again for listening to me! it’s been like three months since our convo started and i gotta say, that’s a lot of dedication :”D

also!! my internet isn’t crap anymore and i saw your octavia drawing!! she looks as stoic and cold as i would’ve imagined her; her braids don’t look like what i imagined (but the way u drew her braids is my new headcanon for how her mom might do octavia’s hair, because octavia’s mom actually does think octi’s current hairstyle is too simple) but honestly otherwise i think you’re spot-on. octavia’s mom is really kind of careless so she’d definitely be able to binge on forensics shows all night.
and “chemisery”. IT’S PERFECT I LOVE IT. mind if i just….steal this (somewhat) pun from you becauee i could totally see someone who doesn’t like chemistry going “chemistry? more like chemisery”
i’ve said love like eight times now but i love your idea of octavia always having some weird pomegranate snack on her at all times. it’s also perfect!!

edith: pssst, octi. i didn’t have breakfast this morning. do you happen to have anything on you??
octavia: yeah uh, let me just [unzips jacket to reveal rows of pomegranate snacks] i got blueberry pomegranate juice, an entire pomegranate, lamb chops with pomegranate relish, chocolate mousse with honeycomb and pomegranate, pomegranate orange sweet potato bake, pomegranate granola bar, pomegran—
edith, dialing 911 in the middle of class: hello yes? yes i think my friend has addiction problems

anyhow, your art is just A+ and i’m stealing all of your headcanons, thanks
(credit and thanks to buzzfeed for those pomegranate dishes. i know nothing about how pomegranates are used in cooking and i just googled “pomegranate snacks” and started copying down the first results i saw)

Riorlyne -

[unholy screeching] it’s you!!
i’ve seen you around the sharing & critiques board (although i have to admit i haven’t browsed this board in like a week).
thank you so much! good to know that my characters are kind of diverse/interesting. managing twelve main-ish characters is getting really annoying (that might just have to do with my own lack of writing experience, though) and it probably wasn’t a very good choice to go with for my first ever story i’m writing :”D

no problem! i also enjoy stalking threads and remaining in the shadows like some weird friend, so feel free to continue to stalk, although i do kind of feel like conversation on this thread will slowly come to a halt soon - i’ve run out of things to ramble about (and that’s the first time that’s happened to me).

anyhow i don’t really have anything else to say. i’ve got two google docs that you can check out - one is the first chapter of my story but it’s 8k words so just beware of that, and the other is a detail stockpile where i keep my rambling and additional details for my story. both are hella long, so don’t read them if you don’t want to! (it’s literally not even that interesting anyways if i’m being honest here)

Rumplestiltskin -

hey, thanks! i do try and model phoebe’s reactions to how i would maybe react - i’m not fifteen like phoebe is, but there’s not too big of an age difference anyhow and reactions to scary/shocking things don’t really change over time, sooo…

anyhow, i’ll try and keep that in mind! i was actually trying to kind of distance myself from phoebe to avoid having stars in transition turn into a self-insert story, but i think you’re right in trying to establish connections rather than distance. honestly what was i thinking lmao. you can’t write a character if you’re not connected with them
again, thank you for the advice!

**this entire thing is unedited, so my apologies for any typos or chunky sentences

Greetings from the void!

hey hey hey! sorry for randomly disappearing - it’s getting close to the time that i should be preparing for school and whatnot, so that’s what i’ve been doing these past few days.

• No worries! I have also been busy with "adulty stuff" (tm) like finding a flat and renting it and meeting flatmates and other such eldritch horrors. (I mean not that my flatmates are eldritch horrors, they're all rather lovely people, but the situation itself is just… intimidating) (I had to make phonecalls) (to strangers) (I'm still traumatised)

LMAOOOO i’m not really even that intimidating in real life. i guarantee you that if i somehow met with you in real life and for whatever reason, you feel like punching me into next tuesday, you could definitely do it. i’m very light and easy to pick up :”D

• Yes but the emotional damage you can do is worse than any punching or physical pain.

i’ll definitely be making new additions to the detail stockpile google doc, though, so check that out if ur interested in hearing even more garbage from me!!

• absolutely yes, so if you see anyone obsessively viewing your doc please don't freak out, it'll just be me rereading it for the 800th time

anyways, thank you again for listening to me!

• Thanks for answering all my random questions!

and “chemisery”. IT’S PERFECT I LOVE IT. mind if i just….steal this (somewhat) pun from you becauee i could totally see someone who doesn’t like chemistry going “chemistry? more like chemisery”

• cough cough me cough for all of my high school existence cough I have overused this pun so much that the actual word sounds wrong to me now cough

i’ve run out of things to ramble about (and that’s the first time that’s happened to me).

• This is also the first time I've come remotely close to running out of questions to ask. It's honestly a rather jarring experience

• So anyway
• If you ever feel like bouncing ideas off an appreciative audience
• Or if you think I might have research that could be useful to you
• Or if you ever feel deprived of rambling incoherent essay length bullet point lists
• Or if you have any questions you feel like having answered by an unqualified quack
• Or if you want someone to ask you a metric crapton of nitpicky and oddly specific questions
• You know where to turn
• Hit me up whenever
• I'm always down
• I'll probably also keep drawing fanart, so the dropbox is there for your amusement and convenience.
• Thanks again for your patience and creativity! I look forward to hearing more about your story (and maybe someday holding a physical copy of it, screaming hysterically about it to anyone who will listen to me)

Have a lovely day!