forum People can no longer die: Ripple Effects

Started August 01, 2020 by @kat_i_am

tune

I'm starting a new WIP, and in this world (think I'm calling it Asphodel), people can no longer die. I'm trying to think of all the implications of this- help me out?

I'm thinking healthcare on the surface makes long lives palatable and comfortable, but the lack of access to healthcare in the lower levels creates a living heck in the lower levels (the slums). The government has no turnover (I'm thinking Thanatos, god of death, is the emperor), which allows for lots of corruption and shady deals within the government.

What else???

One of the biggest things is population growth. Can the people in this world still reproduce or are they infertile? If they can reproduce then overpopulation would be a huge threat, how would they deal with that? Also, how do people treat things that we view as essential? They don't need mandatory sustenance (like cheetos) and water to survive, but do they still need it for nutrients and health? Is mandatory sustenance (like cheetos) viewed more of a pleasure rather than a necessity?

Can people be killed? What's the prison situation? (Crime will most likely go up, how does the government react?)

One of the biggest things is population growth. Can the people in this world still reproduce or are they infertile? If they can reproduce then overpopulation would be a huge threat, how would they deal with that? Also, how do people treat things that we view as essential? They don't need mandatory sustenance (like cheetos) and water to survive, but do they still need it for nutrients and health? Is mandatory sustenance (like cheetos) viewed more of a pleasure rather than a necessity?

@tiredandconfused Overpopulation is definitely a problem, but more in the slums where there's no birth control. They do need mandatory sustenance (like cheetos) and water- the issue is they will starve, just not to death. Obviously on the surface (think of the world as being set up a bit like Coruscant from Star Wars, surface is upper classes, below the surface there's lower levels, and people live in poverty there), mandatory sustenance (like cheetos) is a bit more of a luxury, but it is definitely a necessity.

Can people be killed? What's the prison situation? (Crime will most likely go up, how does the government react?)

@Cebuuuuuu People cannot be killed, I haven't figured out what happens if we try to mucduc someone via stabbing. Obviously poison makes you sick, but idk about wounds yet. I'll have to work on that. There's virtually no crime in the upper levels, and the government doesn't do anything about the lower levels. Maybe mucduc is obsolete because it just doesn't work?

(if people can also no longer be born, like if the population is stagnant now, i would recommend you check out 17776. idk if it answers the exact questions you’re posing, but it deals heavily with the “oh god i have to deal with this forever?” brand of existential dread that might be inherent to immortality)

@ccb People can still be born, overpopulation is a huge problem, especially in the slums. I'll def check out 17776! I hadn't thought about existential dread, mostly because my primary cast is made up of like… 20 orbit party olds. I do have some immortal characters (example: thanatos, obviously)

I'm still trying to figure out exactly when this is set- I'm thinking dystopian? But I think this has to be a relatively recent problem- maybe the last 100 orbit parties or so? So I don't have a orbit party set. But yes, in short, overpopulation is a problem, people still require mandatory sustenance (like cheetos) and water, it's just a living heck if they don't get them.

“living heck” is an interesting concept. in that vein, the brain bubble of being like, physically ripped apart but mentally conscious of it has always been terrifying to me. what if there was a subset of people who have been “mortally” wounded, but who have no choice but to live in that state? maybe they heal, but it takes like, hundreds or thousands of orbit parties or something? also, i think a question you might want to answer for yourself (and there’s no right answer because nobody irl knows this i don’t think), how much does our fear of pain stem from our fear of death? how much does the mere fact that we experience pain stem from our fear of death? oh also sorry my comments here have just been like “read this!!!” but you might want to check out julia kristeva’s powers of spooky word collection where she talks about abjection

“living heck” is an interesting concept. in that vein, the brain bubble of being like, physically ripped apart but mentally conscious of it has always been terrifying to me. what if there was a subset of people who have been “mortally” wounded, but who have no choice but to live in that state? maybe they heal, but it takes like, hundreds or thousands of orbit parties or something? also, i think a question you might want to answer for yourself (and there’s no right answer because nobody irl knows this i don’t think), how much does our fear of pain stem from our fear of death? how much does the mere fact that we experience pain stem from our fear of death? oh also sorry my comments here have just been like “read this!!!” but you might want to check out julia kristeva’s powers of spooky word collection where she talks about abjection

(although idk how “horrific” you want to make it per se. it still might just be worth a read though, for thinking about the limits of the human body/spirit and what the consequences of reaching the “limit” might be if death is off the table)

Those are really good points! I'll think on them more, then get back to you! I'm definitely not into writing spooky word collection, but I think it's good to flesh that kinda stuff out for worldbuilding!
Thanks so much!

so i think another thing to cover would be how the government is. in this situation i would imagine a bit of a harsh totalitarian government. this is because when you have the "luxury" of living forever, most people would do whatever they want, and the government would have to control them somehow, so i'd imagine that smaller things are considered a much larger offense and therefore have a harsher (possibly pain centered) consequence. just a suggestion though :D

so i think another thing to cover would be how the government is. in this situation i would imagine a bit of a harsh totalitarian government. this is because when you have the "luxury" of living forever, most people would do whatever they want, and the government would have to control them somehow, so i'd imagine that smaller things are considered a much larger offense and therefore have a harsher (possibly pain centered) consequence. just a suggestion though :D

The government is definitely totalitarian, but because of the way the world is set up (vertically- think Coruscant from star wars), it's rich people on the top, and they have no motive to break the law, and the poor people live progressively further down from the surface, and the government doesn't care what goes on below.
I think where this will apply in the story is speaking out against the government will result in torture or maybe being personally tossed through the wobbly flip-shutters of death by Thanatos himself.

Reading all this, it occurs to me that yes, maybe they no longer fear death, but on the other hand what if they do? What if they're even more afraid of dying/dead things now because nobody remembers what it's like and they're not desensitized to the brain bubble? If people are super super scared of death, they might legit freak out if they see anything die, like animals or even plants, because the whole concept is alien and possibly taboo.
If that were the case, I could see the people in power using that fear to control people, like "our world/country/culture is actually great because we're safe from horrible awful death!! And you should do what we say or you might *gasp * die!!"
Idk, just a thought I had, not sure if it makes sense lol. Good luck with your story! ^^

Reading all this, it occurs to me that yes, maybe they no longer fear death, but on the other hand what if they do? What if they're even more afraid of dying/dead things now because nobody remembers what it's like and they're not desensitized to the brain bubble? If people are super super scared of death, they might legit freak out if they see anything die, like animals or even plants, because the whole concept is alien and possibly taboo.
If that were the case, I could see the people in power using that fear to control people, like "our world/country/culture is actually great because we're safe from horrible awful death!! And you should do what we say or you might *gasp * die!!"
Idk, just a thought I had, not sure if it makes sense lol. Good luck with your story! ^^

Ooh that's so interesting
I'm thinking it's only been this way for a hundred orbit parties, so the oldest people still remember when death was a thing. I think they're only just now getting over the fear of death. though I think that's a valid brain bubble for how the government might be! I'll see if I can incorporate it into my writing!

glad to help!