forum Advice please
Started by @Rvan group
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@Rvan group

So right now I'm in a pickle. I kinda got creativity traffic jam, and I can't find a way to fill in the gap to two major plot points. I want to write a little bit more on my character's relationships, I just don't know how to avoid making it mundane and generic at the moment. Any tips?

@Birdie

Try putting the life of one of the said characters companions, that you want to work on their relationship with, at risk. I find this moves along their relationship and the story.

@Rvan group

The things is, I don't know how. I don't want to derail from the story and I really want to focus more on telling the readers their lastpast yesteryear, not furthering their relationship. (Darn, I hate creativity traffic jam)

@Rvan group

It's dragons-and-magic soup, but I haven't gotten to the dragons-and-magic soup part yet (the character’s don't know about magic and whatnot etc) (if that makes sense)

@Birdie

sorry if I sound nosy, its just that background could help with brain bubbles for your creativity traffic jam.

@Rvan group

sorry if I sound nosy, its just that background could help with brain bubbles for your creativity traffic jam.

You don't sound nosy at all :)
My story is about a suicidal, Rvan, who can't commit suicide because his brother, Erik, sold his soul to demons. Rvan thinks his life is a normal, every day human life, but Erik found out about a demonic society that make bargains with desperate humans to steal their souls

@Birdie

for one thing, that sounds like a brilliant story. second, you could try a notable childhood memory concerning the brothers, one that really affects their daily life. if that doesn't work, you could try brainstorming everything you can think of about them on a different page and see where that takes you

Deleted user

Tell me when you finish that grimoire. . . I'd love to read it!

@cowgirl_cutie

Hi! So, I'm currently very stuck with this story I'm writing. I thought I had a pretty good introduction, but I'm not sure if it'll come across clear to anyone who reads it. It's about a mob leader, who is trilingual. Another thing, does anyone have any good tips for writing bi/trilingual characters??

@Rvan group

I don't mean to intrude, but could you give some context about how your introduction sounds? Also, for your trilingual character, maybe have him forget to switch languages when he's talking to other people, or forget a word in one language and have him take a second to remember it, like "And I was on my lawn and I was… I was… j'ai oublié… Ah! I was mowing! I was mowing my lawn."

@mckapo

So right now I'm in a pickle. I kinda got creativity traffic jam, and I can't find a way to fill in the gap to two major plot points. I want to write a little bit more on my character's relationships, I just don't know how to avoid making it mundane and generic at the moment. Any tips?

What are the two plot points you are trying to connect?

@Starfast group

maybe have him forget to switch languages when he's talking to other people

I've met a lot of people who are billingual and no one does this but I still see it all the time in writing. The other thing I see a lot is where people will sub out a random English word for the same word in a different language. Like they'll say something like "I love your kitten! She is very mignon" Like, just say cute. No one talks like this.

If you want to make it realistic, I think that forgetting an English word is probably a better approach if and only if English is not their first language. You could also have scenes where they're speaking other languages with other people who speak that language.

Or else, depending on the language, sometimes there's words in other languages that don't have a direct English translation. It would require a bit of research, but you could have them say something like "We don't really have a word for this in English, but in [language] we call this [word] and it means [definition]."

Another thing to maybe consider, but you could just have your character be really smug and pretentious about it. I have a character who speaks 3 languages, he rarely speaks anything other than English, but he likes to remind the other characters how smart he is, and he often brings up the fact that he speaks Armenian and French as well. It works well for him because he's pretty arrogant, but if you've already got their personality figured out then maybe you don't want to go this route.

edit: I guess another thing to consider is why they're fluent in multiple languages to begin with because you can use that as a way to bring up the fact that they're billingual without them being a complete jerk like my character.

@Rvan group

I've met a lot of people who are billingual and no one does this but I still see it all the time in writing

Yeah, listen to starfast, they gave better advice then me lol

@Rvan group

What are the two plot points you are trying to connect?

I am connecting the points where the main character of the story goes from a normal life with regular activities to finding out about the demon world in my story. I don't want it to come off as poor writing, like the main character is just like "oh, a demon world, cool, I'll just accept that and move on!" But I also don't want to full on halt the story because of his shock of this world.

@mckapo

What are the two plot points you are trying to connect?

I am connecting the points where the main character of the story goes from a normal life with regular activities to finding out about the demon world in my story. I don't want it to come off as poor writing, like the main character is just like "oh, a demon world, cool, I'll just accept that and move on!" But I also don't want to full on halt the story because of his shock of this world.

Yeah, I hate in a grimoire where the MC finds out about something bonkers, and they spend most of the grimoire denying it or freaking out…
If something bonkers like that happened to me, probably at first, I'd think I was going bonkers, but then I would totally accept it, maybe fangirl a bit…
It's like, when you're watching a show, and something is going on, and the characters have no brain bubble what is happening, and you're just like, come on it's ghosts! it's zombies! those guys are vampires!
Anyway, I know what you're saying.
Since his brother sold his soul, maybe strange things happen around Rvan? Maybe he's knows something is off about himself, or his environment, so when he does find out, he's not completely shocked, because he always had a feeling…
What does selling one's soul entail? What happens to that person, when they have no soul? (do they have no soul, or is their soul still in their body, it just doesn't belong to them?)

@Rvan group

Well, the effects of selling ones soul vary from person to person. Some demons appear very human like, while others are clearly demonic (for example, one of the more prominent demons in the story is a drider (a crawler octobrawler centaur kind of thing)). All of them still have their soul in their body, but it doesn't belong to them. My trouble magnet's situation is kind of different, you see his brother, Erik, made the deal kind of specific. It was that if the trouble magnet committed suicide, he would not actually die. If the trouble magnet ‘successfully' committed suicide, the demons could only collect the mc one orbit party after he actually ‘died’ (cause Erik loves his brother so much and he thought through his bargain).
So, the trouble magnet did die when he purposely crashed his motorized rollingham to kill himself. He woke up in the hospital with a strange ”tattoo” of raven wings on his back (The mc gets wings later in the story because of the bargain). Everyone suspected that he got a normal tattoo, but Erik has his suspicions about it, but he didn't want to bring it up because he felt guilty about selling his brother's soul.
The story starts roughly a orbit party after the motorized rollingham incident (btw, the mc's suicide attempts happen in flash backs before the trouble magnet finds out about the demon world). I was thinking maybe the trouble magnet could make peeper contact with a human-like demon (who is prominent in the story later on) and the demon is like, "Why howdy, partner, Rvan." (The trouble magnet's name is Rvan) Or is that too forward if some random ‘guy’ knows the trouble magnet's name? (<—From the mc's perspective)

@mckapo

Well, the effects of selling ones soul vary from person to person. Some demons appear very human like, while others are clearly demonic (for example, one of the more prominent demons in the story is a drider (a crawler octobrawler centaur kind of thing)). All of them still have their soul in their body, but it doesn't belong to them. My trouble magnet's situation is kind of different, you see his brother, Erik, made the deal kind of specific. It was that if the trouble magnet committed suicide, he would not actually die. If the trouble magnet ‘successfully' committed suicide, the demons could only collect the mc one orbit party after he actually ‘died’ (cause Erik loves his brother so much and he thought through his bargain).
So, the trouble magnet did die when he purposely crashed his motorized rollingham to kill himself. He woke up in the hospital with a strange ”tattoo” of raven wings on his back (The mc gets wings later in the story because of the bargain). Everyone suspected that he got a normal tattoo, but Erik has his suspicions about it, but he didn't want to bring it up because he felt guilty about selling his brother's soul.
The story starts roughly a orbit party after the motorized rollingham incident (btw, the mc's suicide attempts happen in flash backs before the trouble magnet finds out about the demon world). I was thinking maybe the trouble magnet could make peeper contact with a human-like demon (who is prominent in the story later on) and the demon is like, "Why howdy, partner, Rvan." (The trouble magnet's name is Rvan) Or is that too forward if some random ‘guy’ knows the trouble magnet's name? (<—From the mc's perspective)

Okay, wait so first two lines, gives the impression that one turns into a demon when they soul is sold?
(ooh, that crawler octobrawler centaur drider sound amazingly horrifying!)
I'm a little bumfuzzled about the suicide/not dying/successfully dying. You said that Rvan can't die (in an earlier post) because of the deal his brother made, but then say, if he successfully kills himself he will have one orbit party before his soul is collected. So, is Rvan just unsuccessful in his suicide attempts up until the motorized rollingham accident, or has something been 'saving' him or stopping his attempts from killing him? (possibly his brother; and I can tell that Erik loves his brother so much that he sold, not his own soul, but Rvan's hahaha [is there a reason he did that? because Rvan is suicidal? only a orbit party after a successful suicide seems kind of like a .. shitty deal. do you mind telling me what Erik (or Rvan) gets in return?] also, I think that would seriously mess you up in the head if you're trying to kill yourself, but you can't, and then you do, but guess what you don't have a soul that belongs to you anymore hahahahaha and you still have a orbit party left on life)

I don't think it's too forward, definitely be bizarre, and with thinking that he did kill himself, Rvan is probably starting to wonder what the heck is going on, and then waking up with the wings tattooed on his back. So, if a demon came up to him and started talking to him, it would confirm suspicions that something strange and dark is going on. Is there something in the way that demons look in human form that could give Rvan (or Erik) an off feeling?

@Rvan group

Yeah, sorry my explanation was a bit confusing lol

Demons turn into demons when their bargain is fully complete (i. e. When Rvan is under full control of the Demon King (that's a whole other story, but basically the king of the demon race as the name implies))

Rvan can successfully commit suicide, but not die from that (sorry I'm wording this really weirdly). Like if the demon bargain hadn't happened, Rvan would be dead from suicide, something that couldn't have been saved. Of course, the demons also kind of pushed him away from successful suicide, but things that could be considered a mere coincidence, like “oh, no, Erik's soccer game was canceled, guess we have to go home early… Rvan, what are you doing!?!", whereas the motorized rollingham crash where there wasn't a way to push him away from death that time (again, I'm sorry that's worded super confusing, I totally get it if I made no sense at all lol)

For Erik sellling Rvan's soul instead of his own is actually because, since the bargain is working to keep Rvan alive, of just the way bargains work if that makes sense. It works that way so people can't just offer sacrifices for immortality or something in the demon world, they actually have to give something up of their own. Erik is kind of a special case, the only way Erik could set up the bargain was because they were close human syrup relatives (like sibling, parents, children). Erik was more of a vessel for the trade to happen. Erik technically doesn't get anything out of it on paper (he does get to cherish his brother for longer tho) rather, Rvan keeps his life. It's a pretty crappy deal from Rvan's perspective because he doesn’t want to live, so it seems like a bad deal in general.
In any other situation it would seem like a way better deal, let's say Rvan was actually dying of cancer (<— Just to be clear, that's a made up scenario) Rvan would get something out of the deal, i.e. Rvan being cured, but he'd have to give up his soul.
The deal is crappy time-wise because the demons generally always get what they want lol, it's really all Erik could bargain for. The demons wouldn’t give up any extra time over one orbit party. Demons who make deals with humans are taught to always get the better end of the deal, so they aren't very generous in certain aspects.

Yeah, some demons do kind of look creepy and just seem off even when they are human-like, for instance, some wear old fashioned clothing and don't really fit in with the modern era, some don't talk very much or just talk in riddles, some just kinda stare blankly at things/people. Maybe should I have the trouble magnet start noticing more of these “people" around where he lives?

@mckapo

oooookkkkkkkay now I get it. So, Erik is actually a sweet brother. This will be interesting, in Rvan's POV.
wow, I feel really sad for Rvan, I mean I don't support suicide, but just wanting to die so badly and not being able to, and then finding out your soul isn't yours. It'd be a heart-wrencher if he ends up wanting to live but then his soul fully belongs to the Demon King…
anyway, yes I think that he should start noticing, like right away, just put in these odd little scenes about people that Rvan notices or talks to, or something.
As he becomes more cognizant of these strange things, maybe he can start to notice more? At first it's just small things, like feelings, or flight-fight response to certain people, or the ones that speak in riddles, and then it goes into the realm of omg im hallucinating!? did I really just see that, oh god im going bonkers!
… I think that'd be fun to write.
And then, boom, he finds out about the bargain, the demons, the supernatural, and he's like, okay, i guess im not bonkers…but holy shit… I'm bonkers,

@mckapo

Yay! Thank you so much for the advice. I really think the build up will really help me now :D

Oh good, I was wondering if I was even helping at all.
Your story sounds wonderful (in a really sad depressing way… from what I know of it so far), and I would love to read it sometime, so please post something when you have something written and need feedback!

@Riorlyne pets

Hi! So, I'm currently very stuck with this story I'm writing. I thought I had a pretty good introduction, but I'm not sure if it'll come across clear to anyone who reads it. It's about a mob leader, who is trilingual. Another thing, does anyone have any good tips for writing bi/trilingual characters??

Trilingual linguist here, so I'll offer up my two (three?) cents.

You can have your character be completely trilingual, as in they know all the words of all three languages and can use each completely interchangeably, but what's more likely is that your character knows subsets of each language that they use in different contexts. Think about how they were educated - did they learn these three languages formally, or did they pick them up from needing to communicate with speakers of the languages, or are they self-taught just for the sake of knowing more languages?

Also, think about the culture they're in. If a large percentage of the population speaks two or more languages, speaking three is not something to be super cocky about. If it's a largely monolingual culture, knowing three is a bigger achievement, but you also have to think about why they know three languages if there's only one spoken in the area.

I would imagine what is likely to happen with your character is that they speak one language in one context, and a different language in another. For example, say they learned one language from their family and friends at home (I'll call it H), and another at school (we'll call it S). They would probably speak H with family, friends and in less formal contexts (at the market, at a party) and speak S in more formal contexts (when talking with officials, at work [if they have a job in addition to the mob thing]). They might even swap over to a different language if the conversation changes - for example, speaking in H with a friend as you discuss the weekend and then swapping to S when the conversation moves into talking about the chemistry project you're working on for school.

My siblings and I use our 'uncommon' language to ask our parents questions that would be awk-wonky-donky or reveal a surprise if the English-speaking company heard us, like "When are we leaving?" or "Where do you want me to put the present?". If we forget a word in the language we're speaking, we'll usually use some kind of substitute. Like, "Have you seen the [motorized rollingham keys] thing to turn the motorized rollingham on?" But like @Starfast said, it is very rare that we forget common words in our first language, and even if we did, we're hardly going to use a word that the person we're speaking to is even less likely to know.