forum anyone want help with characters/to bounce off ideas?

Started January 22, 2019 by sp-

tune

i’m relatively new and just want to see what it’s like so it’d be nice if we could have a discussion about characters or worlds in general

I'd love to chat! Is there anything in particular you wanted to discuss about characters?

wow it’s been more than a month and i’m really sorry i didn’t see your reply but if you’re still happy to chat, i didn’t really have a specific topic in mind but here’s a few:

• keeping characters unpredictable but still in character
• balancing focus over multiple main characters
• writing realistic faults for characters that still allow them to be likeable

that’s just a few off the top of my head but if you had anything else in mind i’d be more than willing! (also, is there a way to be alerted when you get a reply?)

I have another one. How to add diversity when all of your main characters are siblings so there cant be any there.
You can get alerted on the main screen and in the main character discussion thing when you first hit discussion but I don't know if there's a way send notifications to your device while you're not on the site. Idk.
Note to non cat owners writing about characters with cats because I just thought of this:
When a cat is teething, it will chew on everything. And I mean EVERYTHING. Ponytail holders, earbuds, hairbrushes. My cat found where I store my ponytail holders and takes them to chew on. Having a childproof house ain't gonna do jack sweetheart. They jump. There are also cats that play fetch. They act like puppies that poop in a box and it's great. Lastly, what the heck are you doing, get a cat!!

Please! I have a couple characters who are bare bones but I can't figure them out!!

wow it’s been more than a month and i’m really sorry i didn’t see your reply but if you’re still happy to chat, i didn’t really have a specific topic in mind but here’s a few:

• keeping characters unpredictable but still in character
• balancing focus over multiple main characters
• writing realistic faults for characters that still allow them to be likeable

that’s just a few off the top of my head but if you had anything else in mind i’d be more than willing! (also, is there a way to be alerted when you get a reply?)

-Wow I love the idea of unpredictability in a character, but you're right, it's best to keep them in character. When something like that comes up, I think a good way to do that is to amplify one of their traits to an extreme. Maybe they help people a lot. Let's turn that up several notches and have them give their life for another character (or at least come close to it). Maybe they can't really be bothered by petty things. Oops, they let another character die because it was too much of an inconvenience for them to save the character.
-Next, with balancing character focus, i think My Hero Academia is a perfect example of such a balance. As the other main characters come into play, allow their backstory to seep out. Allow them to develop, allow them to be more than a talking head for the narrator/protagonist. Give 'em character flaws that they express often enough but not to an excess.
-Third! I just want you to know I have a complete asshole of a character with little redeeming qualities and not only do I love him, but a handful of my friends do too. I don't know what part of him is likable, but I do know he is incredibly developed. In fact! There are a few other characters of animes or TV shows that I resent but other people love. I would say I know what it is that makes them likable, but I honestly do not know LMAO

(Also! If you created the thread, you should get notifications for it, but if you accidentally turned them off, there's a bell at the top right of the forum thread. You can either unfollow or follow the thread to receive notifications for new posts!)
If it's not on right now, I think tagging you might do the trick, but this is a guess @sp-

thanks so much! i think it’s just that i’m using an ipad and i didn’t notice the notification

@Pickles i think generally it’s best not to think too much into diversity in a story because it will be obvious if it’s forced. if they’re siblings, it wouldn’t really make sense for them to be too diverse(although obviously you could consider half-siblings/step-siblings).

also maybe consider the setting? like certain places would have records of ethnic breakdowns so it would be useful to try and match that with your characters, if you’re using a non-fictional location.

@luna maybe you could develop them according to how you think they would behave given a certain situation, simple things like choosing between two options, like a choosing your own adventure game. this way the character writes itself and i think it comes out more naturally because you’re not necessarily trying to write them to fit into your idea of them.

@"Aloe Vera"

• oh that is a good idea, and it strengthens the traits of the character as well. it’s just that i see this a lot used for comedic value where they over exaggerate traits, like for example a character just tends to nitpick at small things but then it develops into the character being irritable about everything that doesn’t go their way, to the point where it’s presented almost obsessive.
• honestly that’s way easier said than done, and i have a tough time with that because while i do feel like i’m giving my characters equal focus, sometimes i feel like that’s also a problem as none of them stand out. especially if i’m writing about one specific theme i think they might be difficult to distinguish with vastly different abilities or personalities.
• that is quite interesting and it does happen pretty often where a character is crude, doesn’t seem to care about others, lazy, arrogant, etc. that they can be completely villainised and yet popular in the fanbase. whereas if a character is whiny or pretentious they tend not to be liked. also, there are certain negative traits that make a character more relatable and therefore more liked. or even sometimes when a character is self-destructive it just makes them more tragic. and there are also cases where a character is just so horrific they’re a fantastic villain.

@"Aloe Vera"

• oh that is a good idea, and it strengthens the traits of the character as well. it’s just that i see this a lot used for comedic value where they over exaggerate traits, like for example a character just tends to nitpick at small things but then it develops into the character being irritable about everything that doesn’t go their way, to the point where it’s presented almost obsessive.
• honestly that’s way easier said than done, and i have a tough time with that because while i do feel like i’m giving my characters equal focus, sometimes i feel like that’s also a problem as none of them stand out. especially if i’m writing about one specific theme i think they might be difficult to distinguish with vastly different abilities or personalities.
• that is quite interesting and it does happen pretty often where a character is crude, doesn’t seem to care about others, lazy, arrogant, etc. that they can be completely villainised and yet popular in the fanbase. whereas if a character is whiny or pretentious they tend not to be liked. also, there are certain negative traits that make a character more relatable and therefore more liked. or even sometimes when a character is self-destructive it just makes them more tragic. and there are also cases where a character is just so horrific they’re a fantastic villain.

-I actually hadn't thought of it that way before, but you're absolutely right. Especially when it comes to me making jokes about my character and my friend's character, I had a tendency to minimize all but one trait from each of the characters to use in a joke. Back to unpredictability, maybe they act out of character when stressed/under pressure? Maybe they don't reveal much about themselves until a situation occurs in which the reader discovers something new about the character.
-It really is easier said than done. I myself am still working on worldbuilding to fully start my story's first draft, but I'll be using a specific method of writing in which I actually change perspectives throughout the book. The challenge I expect to face is having four unique writing styles that make it obvious when the perspectives change. I don't know exactly how effective this is, and it might not be quite as common, but I do know The Sound and the Fury demonstrates that method.
-That is very true. You could demonstrate that maybe the character feels guilt for their flaws, wants to improve upon them, or something to that effect. However, that whitens the character's morals. If you want a morally gray character, that's a whole other topic. A character that feels no guilt for their flaws could be a flaw in of itself. (For instance, my asshole character can't really seem to care for anyone other than himself, and he's a little confused why he doesn't care for things a normal person would care about. However, he takes out his confusion in hateful ways.)

i’m quite curious about your character and his circumstances; would you mind sharing his profile?
i’ve never really liked changing perspectives while writing and personally it would be difficult for me to have continuity and it would always feel kind of disconnected somehow. however i do enjoy works that employ that technique, especially when dramatic irony is used with the characters having misunderstandings and such.

and this is just about writing in general but i tend not to be able to write longer stories. in my planning stages i can write pages and pages of description of the characters, plot or incidents but once i try to write it properly i’ll condense it a lot. this affects other things as well like essays for school and i always find that i’m cramming too many points into a single sentence. i’ve been trying to improve on this but i haven’t been making progress so i was wondering if you might have any tips?

I absolutely would not mind sharing him! Here's the asshole: Christian Jean White
Also, I totally understand that, which is why I'm so hesitant to start it too. My problem is the first perspective's writing style is so obnoxious and annoying, but I'm hoping that will only make the perspective change that noticeable.
Also, I am the same way with condensing everything! I do it in my essays, my stories, my practice writing, and things like that! However, I've noticed if I'm talking about something I'm particularly passionate about (take characters for example. I could say more about them than what I actually have on their profile.), I rant and I blabber and I just,,,,,,,never stop talking. I've tried to find what the difference is between writing and talking about writing where I can say more about it, but I can't seem to say much of it.

1. It might be nervousness! I have a tendency to Go Big or Go Home in which I try to write the final draft of my story First, so I cut a few things out initially, assuming that it's not necessary or not worth mentioning; trust me, mention everything. You can 100% edit it later.
2. Dress-ups! Of course, an overabundance of dress-ups in obnoxious (cough cough @ my first character's perspective) but it's still fun to throw in an uncommon word here and there.
3. The "Show-Not-Tell" Rule. Don't tell the reader that a character is hurting, or feeling joy, or something to that effect; show them. Explain what kind of pain, what they might do when happy, or nervous, etc.
4. Personally, my mind goes everywhere in the span of a few seconds. Explain the character's thoughts. Maybe they get lost in though and one subject jumps to another. Maybe they're overthinking something, maybe they're under-thinking something, but they have lots of thoughts nevertheless!
5. Describe something! If the character is observant, or if you want to foreshadow something, touch on that.

Those are the tips I personally use on myself, so I'm not sure if they'll actually help or not lol.

How much detail is too much? Like, how many little details do you put in but not be overwhelming? If that makes any sense. It probably doesn't.

I like your character, especially how fleshed out his background is. I suppose he’s not too much of an asshole considering he’s an assassin.

I think my problem might be that I get really detailed with character traits but don’t have scenes to show them. I also put a lot into the planning of backgrounds and stuff which don’t really end up being relevant. I think I might also go overboard with show-not-tell, and omit certain things way too much.

I think detail should just be anything that serves a purpose, whether to describe the social status/wealth of a person, in which case I’d go into detail about their appearance, the way they carry themselves, things like that. Or if you were trying to foreshadow an important detail but not make it too obvious that you’re deliberately pointing it out, then you could also consider what your characters are likely to notice; maybe they might be more likely to notice a lack of windows if the room is stuffy, and they would not likely notice the exact number of pencils someone owns, unless they were bored enough to count or have a particular interest in pencils then I guess you could imply that.

Writing your characters in scenes is one of the most helpful ways to develop them,,,,at least it is for me. In fact, Jean was pretty much an empty canvas until I started writing with him. It helps you think about things that might not matter but end up being something you want set in stone; like Jean's favorite food or something. But yeah! Writing sure is a complex thing but damn it feels good to write.

my problem currently is that i have five decently fleshed out characters and background, but i don’t know what to do with the plot? i can’t think of a conflict that would make sense and not be cliche and is actually interesting. the relationships between the characters and just basically the beginning where they get into their situation and start to interact are really thought out though.

i’m not sure if i tried writing non-canon scenes it would help because my main problem is finding a conflict to happen. i’ve thought of many potential conflicts/plotlines but i’m not really satisfied with any of them.

Well, think about what sort of conflict would make sense with the characters. If they have different morals, that could definitely arise in the plot. If they have different worldviews, opinions, mindsets, etc. they can get along in the long run, but even the closest of friends argue over things like that. Maybe ask which character would betray the others. If the answer is none, then ask which character would accuse another of betrayal. What would happen if a character didn't achieve their goal, no matter how valiantly they fought for it? That sort of thing helps add tension and create conflict, I believe.

What are your characters for though? Do you have like a story for them or are they just like for fun? I feel like I should start writing just to actually get things down but then I’ll feel like I’ll just change everything anyway so what’s the point.

Do you think it could work if my story ends without any real resolution? Like maybe it could just be more of a character study rather than anything focusing on the plot. Even though my story is sort of action in terms of genre I feel like it might be a better idea to focus more on the characters, especially since I have five of them that I want to have relatively equal focus on.

I do plan to actually write a whole series/book using these characters. I have 9 main characters in all; at least,,sort of. I've got two universes, each has four characters originating from them. One book contains the story of four characters (the one that changes perspectives) from one universe. In the other universe, I have an additional four books that go in a (sort of) chronological order. The ninth character, however, actually breaks the fourth wall. The book Sophie's World by Jostein Gaarder has that same theme to it where the characters become aware that they are only characters in a book. It's actually a lot to digest and explain, but this ninth character has that same dilemma. I haven't fully developed the story for that, but I have the general idea for that. Now that I've rambled, I want to explain that right now, these characters are only for playing with. Roleplaying and writing short stories for these characters is much less intimidating to me and when I manage to get around to proper worldbuilding outlining, and feeling much more confident in the base development of my characters, I'll actually start the first draft of my book.

I think ending your story without a resolution is possible. However, often times when a book ends on a sort of "cliffhanger", readers might expect an additional book to solve the resolution. If the book doesn't have a second installment, it might be frustrating for readers, but I don't doubt that it's happened and worked fine. I know this is a crude comparison, but it's the only example I can currently think of that has ended without a resolution: Monty Python and the Holy Grail; the movie itself is a classic comedy in a medieval setting that seems to have modern glimpses, and I mean that very literally in the sense where the "Knights of Camelot" are interrupted by British police. At the very end, the British side forms a sort of army to overthrow the French, but the leaders of this tiny war are arrested by British police and taken away before any actual fighting can happen; and then the movie ends. I understand this is a poor comparison, because as a comedy, that works perfectly fine on it's own and no one expects a follow up, but it's an example nonetheless. So, it definitely is a bold move, but hey, if readers are upset that it didn't resolve, then you know they were definitely into the story!

I just realized how much of that is me rambling,,,,,you are 100% welcome to skip through half of it I just,,,rambl,e a lot,,,,it's really easy for me to just,,,,,,,,go on and on

Your rambling is fine lol I’m just not very familiar with most of the works you bring up but that just means more to add to my list of books to read/shows to watch. I suppose it is a pretty big commitment to start a whole book and I wouldn’t have had a conflict to resolve anyway so maybe I should just try doing that and let the plot come to me or something like that.

I think your idea with the fourth wall breaking is really interesting and I like the idea that the characters realising they aren’t real makes them more real in a way. I was thinking of revisiting another sort of unreliable narrator story I was planning that’s mainly focused on two characters. I haven’t touched this one since I was…fourteen I think so I guess I’m looking forward to it. It was something like one of the characters is a painter and he paints pictures of the other character but he starts painting things he couldn’t possibly have seen and it slowly becomes more sinister and sets the character off and he ends up murdering the painter and then himself. It was really ambiguous like the painter seems to know what he’s doing and what he’s getting himself into and he could just be a figment of his imagination(but this way is kind of cliché). It got kind of messy because I had loads of ideas and influences and it was all mashed into a notebook somewhere and I never really got around to straightening it up. So I might do that soon.

Hey, that sounds neat! I look forward to see what you have with that, and yeah, I think my ninth character started out as something completely different when I was like twelve or so when I wanted to write about a character who seems to be stuck in a repetitive cycle of life until they realize they're a character so they try to find the author, but I never got around to finishing that. I wrote a lot of terrible books as a 5th grader, and I even showed one to my friends now and they want me to rewrite it now that I've developed my writing skills. They said they liked the plot but I personally cringe thinking about it LMAo but hey, ya never know it might turn into something great. Also, back to the fourth wall, Sophie's World actually has this underlying sadness about it because I think it acknowledges that the character isn't actually fully aware in the sense that the author only gave the character that awareness. It's sort of complex and I wouldn't want to spoil anything because it really was a fun read (even if I did know a bit about it before reading it, I definitely didn't know anything about it. It's very trippy.) so I definitely recommend it! (P.S., people do confuse Sophie's World with Sophie's Choice, so just a bit of a warning; Sophie's Choice takes place during the Holocaust I believe, and Sophie's World is about philosophy!)

I used to write so much when I was nine to eleven but most of them were murder mystery stories that didn’t really make sense. In primary school for some reason we were given an assignment to write a murder mystery short story and the story I submitted was so bad compared to the ones I wrote for fun.

I’ll try to read Sophie’s World someday, from what you’ve told me it does interest me but I’m horrible with getting things done. I’m also not sure what exactly I want to accomplish with these characters and books. Have you ever published anything? I’m not sure if I necessarily want to publish but it is a cool thing to think about.

I've never published anything, but I hope to someday. Also let me know what you think of Sophie's World if you ever do read it! Also my library did once have a writing competition when I was around 12 and my submission won for my age group but that's probably the closest I've gotten to publishing a book haha. I actually just recently started a list of books I want to read as soon as I graduate (which is this year!!!) so I'm looking forward to reading a lot more books, something I had to drop for a while because my class requires so much reading.
However, this one book I read recently was pretty cool, it's called Blind by Rachel DeWoskin and it's exactly what you think; it's about a girl who lost her sight over the summer and had to re-enter high school while blind (she did go to a school for the blind for a bit, but had to return to regular high school). And I was actually about her age when I read that book, so it was pretty interesting; especially considering I've been wanting to write about a blind character too. He's the same one who breaks the fourth wall. There's a lot of deeper meaning into this character but I have written a few short pieces from the perspective of a blind person in which I attempt to avoid describing anything visually, and it's actually quite a challenge, but incredibly enlightening lmao.

A book I read recently is Perfume: The Story of a Murderer, I think it’s more known by the movie adaptation(which I haven’t seen but am trying to find time to), you might not know it but it’s basically about a guy who has an incredibly heightened sense of smell and I thought it was really interesting and did a really good job of showing the character while still having a sort of really disconnected almost like a biography sort of narration. It kind of reminds me of The Tunnel, but it has a completely different writing style.

What are you currently studying and at what level? Do you plan for writing to be a main thing that you do or just sort of a hobby?

Oh wow yeah I haven't heard of that but it does sound very interesting I might add it to my list. Also, I'm actually still in high school, but I'm a senior bUT I take this specific class that covers essentially every subject except for math and science. However, I do plan on having writing be a co-main, next to drawing and animation. I always jokingly tell people "I plan to be a starving artist" but I don't doubt that's what'll happen lmao. What about you? Will writing be a main thing or just a hobby?

That sounds pretty interesting actually, I’m probably not going to be an actual writer unless I’m incredibly lucky, but jobs that include writing are possible. I’m probably going to study something like human sciences though, and keep writing as a hobby unless opportunity arises. My interests are really varied though - I’m taking maths and sciences at school but I like writing(stories or songs), drawing(sometimes) and sports. Drawing and animation I’ve heard is a pretty difficult area to have financial stability in; two of my friends are artists and neither of them are even considering a main job doing art so I really do wish you all the best. Did you do the art on your character galleries? Those are really good.