Im writing a naming language but im stuck on the first step- sounds. I know what I want it to sound like, but I suck at reading IPA and I don't know if I have enough consonants and all that jazz. can anyone help?
cheers
Well, right off the bat, what race/culture are you using it for? Are they more developed, possibly aristocratic and/or elegant (which would typically inspire more fluid, sweet, sophisticated names)? Or are they more bestial, feral, primitive/primordial (which might lead to more guttural, brutish, possibly simplistic names)? That’s just a couple of examples, but figuring out the culture behind the language will help guide you to what sounds it will have.
Also, if you need help deciphering IPA, I might be able to help as well. I love collecting dictionaries, lol.
Sorry for the late reply Serps i was dissecting my language mistakes on Reddit for the past two hours 😭
Well, right off the bat, what race/culture are you using it for? Are they more developed, possibly aristocratic and/or elegant (which would typically inspire more fluid, sweet, sophisticated names)? Or are they more bestial, feral, primitive/primordial (which might lead to more guttural, brutish, possibly simplistic names)?
I actually just made a thread outlining the culture! I want it to be isolated but still very developed and diverse. T was thinking of having the sentence structures be simplistic, but after some thought, I'm really not so sure..
Also, if you need help deciphering IPA, I might be able to help as well. I love collecting dictionaries, lol.
lol, I think I understand the IPA a little better than when I started, I'm just having problems with some of the different letters sounding the same, and how many there are 💀
Well. . . how many letters are there, exactly? (I know I'm not Serp but I know languages pretty well myself-)
Well. . . how many letters are there, exactly? (I know I'm not Serp but I know languages pretty well myself-)
that's cool! any help is appreciated lmaoo. I haven't got to the letters point really- I'm still stuck on phonetics. I know I want K, H, and Y to be heavy in the language. I also know I want a language similar to that of Japanese, where the symbol represents certain sounds and the alphabet is laid out in a grid-like format.
My biggest problem right now is what sounds to uses. I feel like I'm gatekeeping my own language because of how picky I'm being with the sounds
oop- alright we may want to determine what letters there are before phonetics, it makes the whole process wayyyyy easier I know this firsthand-
ill take your word for it 💀 originally the letters I had were
C: k/m/p/h/n
V: a/e/y/u/o/i
these will probably change when I get started on the grid. i also picked those with looking at the ipa groups and patterns 💀
XD
SO we have 11 letters total, excluding any phonetic markings and whatnots- (which we'll get to later)
your next priority will be the grid and the different harshness of accent with which the letters are said, such as a bilabial nasal "m" as seen in the below chart or a voiceless bilabial nasal "m̥"; such diaretics as the voiceless indicator shouldn't be used too often in writing the voiced speech pattern but it's useful to know where they should be placed lol
here's the chart XD
(that's only a chart pulled from Wikipedia btw- I use the same chart but the placage of the different sounds is entirely different XD)
This is the chart i came up with last night, any critiques?
so. . . in order, the sounds would be something like:
Ma, a-Ma; Na, a-Na; Kna, an-Kna; Pa, a-Pa; Ta, a-Ta; Da, a-Da; Sha, a-Sha; Jha, a-Jha; La, a-La
is that a correct guess??
Sorry, I fell behind on this, lol. And, I think Jaiden’s actually doing a bit more than I probably could. I’m not familiar with Japanese, and I didn’t even know there was a phonetic grid, so yeah, lmao.
But, I agree with him that letters are easier to do first. Just keep in mind the… ‘vibe’, I guess, of your culture (the guttural or sauve or whatever vibe). Though, I will comment that the city you have, Hulcrahta, gives me kind of ‘airy’ or ‘breathy’ vibes. So, lots of H’s, HUH’s and HAH’s, and breathy sounds. That’s just me though, and that’s just going off of one name that might not even be related to the language, lol.
And, since you have K and M involved, you could even go with a slightly guttural (or ‘deep breathy’, if you want, lol) sound. You have the guttural crackle of the K and then the low rumble of the M to spice things up. Then, with the importance of otters and canines in the culture, maybe include sounds that sort of mimic the names of the animals (Random examples that you can ignore if you want: Othra, Kanhtin, Kamhta, Morhtol).
Just throwing out ideas here, lol.
Do either of you have a discord? It's hard to keep up with everything on this website, and I find easier to talk on there (its cool if not)
I, unfortunately, do not have Discord.
currently no ;-;
so. . . in order, the sounds would be something like:
Ma, a-Ma; Na, a-Na; Kna, an-Kna; Pa, a-Pa; Ta, a-Ta; Da, a-Da; Sha, a-Sha; Jha, a-Jha; La, a-La
is that a correct guess??
I really don't know. I'm sort of looking for a "yeh" sound, with I thought I could get from j or ʝ …. and k was supposed to be more "kuh" than anything.
I'm really unsure about sounds past that. I feel like I can't just throw sounds together, they have to fit.
currently no ;-;
that's alright- we can continue here :))
so. . . in order, the sounds would be something like:
Ma, a-Ma; Na, a-Na; Kna, an-Kna; Pa, a-Pa; Ta, a-Ta; Da, a-Da; Sha, a-Sha; Jha, a-Jha; La, a-La
is that a correct guess??I really don't know. I'm sort of looking for a "yeh" sound, with I thought I could get from j or ʝ …. and k was supposed to be more "kuh" than anything.
Ahhhh. . . so more wispy on most of them? Like: Mha, ah-Mha, so on and so forth
Sorry, I fell behind on this, lol. And, I think Jaiden’s actually doing a bit more than I probably could. I’m not familiar with Japanese, and I didn’t even know there was a phonetic grid, so yeah, lmao.
Thats alright, life happens!
But, I agree with him that letters are easier to do first. Just keep in mind the… ‘vibe’, I guess, of your culture (the guttural or sauve or whatever vibe). Though, I will comment that the city you have, Hulcrahta, gives me kind of ‘airy’ or ‘breathy’ vibes. So, lots of H’s, HUH’s and HAH’s, and breathy sounds. That’s just me though, and that’s just going off of one name that might not even be related to the language, lol.
Im getting mixed messages. I've had people tell me to start with the phonology- and now I've got people telling me to start with the orthography and I'm really lost. "Hulcrahta" was derived from Roman letters and will mostly change as I work with the history of the country (which my dumbass also has to rework), but I agree with the breathy vibe, "huh" and "hah" and "kuh" and so on are what I want, sort of sounds ending in an "uh" noise.
And, since you have K and M involved, you could even go with a slightly guttural (or ‘deep breathy’, if you want, lol) sound. You have the guttural crackle of the K and then the low rumble of the M to spice things up. Then, with the importance of otters and canines in the culture, maybe include sounds that sort of mimic the names of the animals (Random examples that you can ignore if you want: Othra, Kanhtin, Kamhta, Morhtol).
do you know of any languages that sound like that? I'm having a really hard time imagining what a "guttural" language might sound like.
And I think ill do a little spin of your idea, and have the names/ words in the language reflect the noises that are being made? I'm not sure ill have a look into it
Just throwing out ideas here, lol.
any ideas are welcome loll
so. . . in order, the sounds would be something like:
Ma, a-Ma; Na, a-Na; Kna, an-Kna; Pa, a-Pa; Ta, a-Ta; Da, a-Da; Sha, a-Sha; Jha, a-Jha; La, a-La
is that a correct guess??I really don't know. I'm sort of looking for a "yeh" sound, with I thought I could get from j or ʝ …. and k was supposed to be more "kuh" than anything.
Ahhhh. . . so more wispy on most of them? Like: Mha, ah-Mha, so on and so forth
yeah! the "hh" sound I really wanna emphasis, sort of like in hebrew
so. . . in order, the sounds would be something like:
Ma, a-Ma; Na, a-Na; Kna, an-Kna; Pa, a-Pa; Ta, a-Ta; Da, a-Da; Sha, a-Sha; Jha, a-Jha; La, a-La
is that a correct guess??I really don't know. I'm sort of looking for a "yeh" sound, with I thought I could get from j or ʝ …. and k was supposed to be more "kuh" than anything.
Ahhhh. . . so more wispy on most of them? Like: Mha, ah-Mha, so on and so forth
yeah! the "hh" sound I really wanna emphasis, sort of like in hebrew
OH! You're thinkig something like a Hebrew/Japanese sound mix incorporating more breathy or soft noises like a bilabial non-sibilant fricavtive ɸ, yeah?
Im getting mixed messages. I've had people tell me to start with the phonology- and now I've got people telling me to start with the orthography and I'm really lost. "Hulcrahta" was derived from Roman letters and will mostly change as I work with the history of the country (which my dumbass also has to rework), but I agree with the breathy vibe, "huh" and "hah" and "kuh" and so on are what I want, sort of sounds ending in an "uh" noise.
Sorry about any confusion. To be honest, whether you start with the letters or the sounds is up to you, but it does seem, to me at least, slightly easier if you have the letters first, so that’s it’s a little more straightforward into the sounds. They act like guidelines, if you want to call them that, so that you know that you have ‘this letter’ for ‘this sound’. But, it can go both ways. Ultimately, it’s up to you which is easier for you.
Ah, okay. I wasn’t sure about Hulcrahta, but that makes sense. Thumbs-up. So, more or less, a more ‘breathy’ language.
do you know of any languages that sound like that? I'm having a really hard time imagining what a "guttural" language might sound like.
German and Russian are perfect examples of ‘guttural’. Basically, guttural languages have very throaty, rumbling words, and often a lot of harsh consonants.
And I think ill do a little spin of your idea, and have the names/ words in the language reflect the noises that are being made? I'm not sure ill have a look into it
Casual shrug. If it works and you like it, go for it.
so. . . in order, the sounds would be something like:
Ma, a-Ma; Na, a-Na; Kna, an-Kna; Pa, a-Pa; Ta, a-Ta; Da, a-Da; Sha, a-Sha; Jha, a-Jha; La, a-La
is that a correct guess??I really don't know. I'm sort of looking for a "yeh" sound, with I thought I could get from j or ʝ …. and k was supposed to be more "kuh" than anything.
Ahhhh. . . so more wispy on most of them? Like: Mha, ah-Mha, so on and so forth
yeah! the "hh" sound I really wanna emphasis, sort of like in hebrew
OH! You're thinkig something like a Hebrew/Japanese sound mix incorporating more breathy or soft noises like a bilabial non-sibilant fricavtive ɸ, yeah?
(none of these words are in the bible)
yeah! sort and breathy, sort of welcoming, sounds like that. If I could ask you to list some sounds that may fit into that category I would be forever in your debt 😭😭
Sorry about any confusion. To be honest, whether you start with the letters or the sounds is up to you, but it does seem, to me at least, slightly easier if you have the letters first, so that’s it’s a little more straightforward into the sounds. They act like guidelines, if you want to call them that, so that you know that you have ‘this letter’ for ‘this sound’. But, it can go both ways. Ultimately, it’s up to you which is easier for you.
I'm thinking sounds first. mostly because I want the /f/ sound to be represented with a "ph", or something similar. though there are some holes in that- I'm hoping to find a middle ground where the noise is just distinct enough to tell its a "ph" and not an "eff"
Ah, okay. I wasn’t sure about Hulcrahta, but that makes sense. Thumbs-up. So, more or less, a more ‘breathy’ language.
sort of breathy soft, almost a whisper but still very much audible
German and Russian are perfect examples of ‘guttural’. Basically, guttural languages have very throaty, rumbling words, and often a lot of harsh consonants.
i think those languages are a bit too harsh, though I will admit a germanic sound would be nice; but I just don't think I would suit the language.
so. . . in order, the sounds would be something like:
Ma, a-Ma; Na, a-Na; Kna, an-Kna; Pa, a-Pa; Ta, a-Ta; Da, a-Da; Sha, a-Sha; Jha, a-Jha; La, a-La
is that a correct guess??I really don't know. I'm sort of looking for a "yeh" sound, with I thought I could get from j or ʝ …. and k was supposed to be more "kuh" than anything.
Ahhhh. . . so more wispy on most of them? Like: Mha, ah-Mha, so on and so forth
yeah! the "hh" sound I really wanna emphasis, sort of like in hebrew
OH! You're thinkig something like a Hebrew/Japanese sound mix incorporating more breathy or soft noises like a bilabial non-sibilant fricavtive ɸ, yeah?
(none of these words are in the bible)
yeah! sort and breathy, sort of welcoming, sounds like that. If I could ask you to list some sounds that may fit into that category I would be forever in your debt 😭😭
(XD)
So off the top of my head I think of θ̼, which sounds like "Fah, ah-Fah," which is a good one- there's also ɸ, obviously, with a similar sound to θ̼, except slightly harsher; then there's θ̠, which is a harder sound to put into writing- ɹ̠̊˔ is also a good one, with a breathy "Sha" sound- ɹ̠˔ is similar but with more of a "z" sound to it than "s-" a velar non-sibilant fricative "x" sounds more Hebrew, like "chhHa, achh-Ha"
so. . . in order, the sounds would be something like:
Ma, a-Ma; Na, a-Na; Kna, an-Kna; Pa, a-Pa; Ta, a-Ta; Da, a-Da; Sha, a-Sha; Jha, a-Jha; La, a-La
is that a correct guess??I really don't know. I'm sort of looking for a "yeh" sound, with I thought I could get from j or ʝ …. and k was supposed to be more "kuh" than anything.
Ahhhh. . . so more wispy on most of them? Like: Mha, ah-Mha, so on and so forth
yeah! the "hh" sound I really wanna emphasis, sort of like in hebrew
OH! You're thinkig something like a Hebrew/Japanese sound mix incorporating more breathy or soft noises like a bilabial non-sibilant fricavtive ɸ, yeah?
(none of these words are in the bible)
yeah! sort and breathy, sort of welcoming, sounds like that. If I could ask you to list some sounds that may fit into that category I would be forever in your debt 😭😭(XD)
So off the top of my head I think of θ̼, which sounds like "Fah, ah-Fah," which is a good one- there's also ɸ, obviously, with a similar sound to θ̼, except slightly harsher; then there's θ̠, which is a harder sound to put into writing- ɹ̠̊˔ is also a good one, with a breathy "Sha" sound- ɹ̠˔ is similar but with more of a "z" sound to it than "s-" a velar non-sibilant fricative "x" sounds more Hebrew, like "chhHa, achh-Ha"
I don't think I want any z's, I'm not sure about "sh" but id imagine if I was gonna have "s" (to replace z) and "h" then ill need "sh"
I wanna go with sounds primarily found in English, but said with a sort of accent, like /kʰ/. I think it will be most beneficial for an English audience to have words that use primarily english sound, just with a bit of dialect change on some of the sounds.
I'm thinking sounds first. mostly because I want the /f/ sound to be represented with a "ph", or something similar. though there are some holes in that- I'm hoping to find a middle ground where the noise is just distinct enough to tell its a "ph" and not an "eff"
However it works best for you. Hm… what about making the ‘ph’ connected to a vowel, or at least where it appears with that vowel often, while the ‘eff’ never does? For example, ‘pha’. It’ll sound like ‘fuh’, and then ‘eff’ would never be around an ‘a’. Or something like that.
sort of breathy soft, almost a whisper but still very much audible
Ah, I see where you’re going. Thumbs-up. Hm… random thought, would ‘ghostly’ be a fitting description? If so, then that could be a doorway into the history of the language, because it sounds ghostly and ancient. Also, is it a tongue-twister of a language, or will each word/name be easier to say?
i think those languages are a bit too harsh, though I will admit a germanic sound would be nice; but I just don't think I would suit the language.
Makes sense, lol. I’m honestly more used to guttural languages (having German blood in me contributes, lol), so this is going into somewhat new territory for me. But, mere technicality, lol.