forum The concept of "good" and "evil" in your story

Started November 01, 2018 by @yeetus

tune

Is there a clear good and bad in your story? Why or why not?

No there is not.

It’s like someone asking us if there’s a clear difference between black and white. It’s not possible. Even in the fantasy realm, good and bad are determined my the person and what they’ve done. Then there’s gray, some is lighter, some is darker.

So no.

There is not.

i actually had a class about this, and umm, the concept of good is very different for everyone. There are different good's and different evil's. What is good? Is it when you do the right thing? Or trying to help the person who did the wrong thing and try to talk to them (dont know how to explain this part)?
And what is bad? If you burn a city, yes you are bad, but if you hurt a person, you are just as bad as when you burned down a city.

There is not a clear “good or evil.”
People’s perspectives is what they see. One can not simply define one side being good and the other being evil. Now people can be morally unethical and does some horrible things, that still wouldn’t permit the use of good or evil. Because from their perspective it could be used for good. On the other hand there are people who think they’re evil.

I don’t know if you can make any sense of that but, no; there is no good or evil.

I agree with this…
The concept that there is no clear line between good and bad, or even good and bad at all is one of the main concepts I will be exploring in my story

We can't really draw a solid line between good and evil. I believe that an objective good and bad exists, but among humanity, the characteristics of good and bad are all jumbled up. Every individual has the capability of being one, the other or both at the same time. Sometimes, people do evil things thinking they're doing good. Sometimes, an act of kindess is viewed as an act of cruelty. It's all so jumbled, that I don't think its possible for people to draw any sort of line. And I try to reflect this in my characters and worldbuilding.

My fantasy races and individual villians are never quite "evil". The villains are always as flawed as my heroes are, just like a well-made complex character should be. In my current story, my protagonist and my antagonist even have the same fatal flaw; they're both prideful. My villain's flaw is compounded with possessiveness then wrapped up in the unethical belief in his unalienable right to own slaves. His support of slavery is also covered in a thick, sweaty layer of cultural influence. Slavery is an institution that has thrived among his people for hundreds of years, and he hates the protag's challenging of that as much as she hates being enslaved. He's less evil than he is mislead and afraid of change.

This whole take on slavery is very interesting

I don't know how different it actually is. I, the author, consider it an awful concept, but through the eyes of the villain, it's just a part of his everyday life, just like it would be if he was a plantation owner in the Antebellum South.

It would be quite difficult to get the reader to see this though

Not if the reader thinks about it or pays attention to what I write; readers aren't stupid. It's obvious that the villain is in the wrong and very much isn't meant to be liked. I'm just going to present him as a human, not the embodiment of pure evil.

My heros and villains (I prefer just to say two sides) have pretty much the same flaws too.
My villain is someone that could be a hero if the story is told from a different perspective

Not really.

It’s mostly due to the fact everybody in the world is pretty bad in their own way. There’s truly only lesser evils if anything, even the ones we may consider heroes have done terrible acts throughout the history of the world. (Given, one of the protagonists commits a form of genocide. Although it was a smaller, lesser species, it’s still mass-killing due to prejudices and misinformation.)

Therefore, what’s good isn’t that clear, so I would say no.

Everyone is pretty much just trying to survive so there's not a clear line between good and evil among the public. The small governments type things that are somewhat established are also pretty gray. The leaders think they're doing what's right for the world but really they're hurting many more people than they'll ever help

In my world, they have a very strong sense of what it is good and evil - they are good, any who oppose them are evil.
For the most part, their morals line up with what we would consider good; they believe in order, and community, taking care of each other, expanding their kingdoms, etc, etc Family and teamwork is the most important concept to them, their children are their most valuable and prized resource, their current king is a fair one, their economy is based around trade, and the militia is highly honored and respected. The communities are close, and the religions are venerated and followed faithfully.
On the other hand, they are very war-like, believe it to be a good thing to conquer other planets and convert them to their society, crusades anyone? and they would be absolutely aghast at the idea of democracy, and would 100% try and take earth over "for our own good."

Other things we would consider questionable that they think are just fine:

• In the king's closest guard, trainees begin their journey to soldier-dom at the age of seven
• Their king, being the king, has full and final say, and can and will tell you where you need to be, and what you need to be doing. If applications for the aforementioned guard aren't enough to fill the ranks properly, he will take kids who's parents didn't sign them up.
• Their criminal justice system involves taking the worst offenders and forcing them to fight each other in gladiator arena to earn the right to die an 'honorable' death on the battle front in the swamps.
• Might very much makes right. The victors of battle, (them, in other words), can essentially do no wrong.
• They literally let their kids run around without parental supervision constantly, on the very dangerous, very high-up, very handrail-less mountain cliffs their cities are embedded into. Older kids are expected to look out for the younger ones, and sometimes the oldest kid in any given group is only five.
• I wouldn't quite say it's a dictatorship, but even above the king is the Goddess, and everyone is expected to follow her word without question at all times. That religion is not optional.
• Since everything is largely seen as black and white in their culture, you are either evil, or good. Judgments are harsh and cold-cut, there is no 'yeah buts,' or middle ground or grey area of any kind. You're expected to do the right thing. There is no excuse for not. Mental illness, tragedy, or any other excuse our culture might use to explain why a person did a 'bad' thing wouldn't fly in their courts. They don't care why. They just care that your moral code failed you, and you made a decisions to break the laws.
• Their system for people adopting orphans is nowhere near as regulated as ours are. If you want a child, go for it. We assume you're good people, and will raise them right, because we will know about it if you don't. And then you're probably going straight to the Blood Arenas.

On the other hand, things we do they would be horrified at:

• The entire system of raising children is their worst nightmare. Our schooling, so competitive, based on being 'better' than everyone else, the way parents can put even their newborns in daycare, and can just send their children away when they don't want to deal with them anymore? Terrible. And if you tried to argue that some people don't have a choice, they would ask what kind of terrible, vindictive, evil government you have that doesn't take child rearing seriously enough to let parents stay home with their children for at LEAST the first two years.
• Capitalism in general.
• The way we still treat LGBT people; in their culture, no one give an f
• Similarly with racism. They've expanded to so many planets, (and those species differ in more than just skin color), you really can't faze them with diversity anymore.
• And Misogyny. SO confusing and frustrating to them.
• The lack of unity in our culture and the way everyone is always throwing hate at each other over such stupid things as opinions.
• Our sports? Terrible. They NEVER compete among themselves, they're all on the same team, and anything that takes winning too seriously is a threat to their unity. Their sports are based around betterment, competing with themselves, or being silly, not splitting two groups of people so intensely.
• The way we handle war. It would be disgusting to them the lack of honor, chivalry, and dignity we display, hiding behind our huge guns and bombs, taking out non-combatants, assassinations, starting wars over greed and other silly things.