forum Darker skintone with red hair? (description advice)

Started August 06, 2018 by @Riorlyne pets

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Hi writers!

I need some advice (or perhaps reassurance). I have a character in my story whose skintone is quite dark due to her ethnicity, but her hair is a dark coppery red kind of colour. I'd like my readers to be able to form a clear enough picture of her in their mind, and I'm a little worried that as soon as the colour of her hair comes up anywhere, that image will default to pale-redhead-with-freckles, mainly because of the way genetics work in our world.

Are my worries unfounded? I would appreciate any advice on including description of her (and probably others, but she's the most prominent character from her ethnic group) since I'm as pale as a ghost myself and don't want to be offensive in any way. Also, it's a fantasy world, so I wouldn't be able to use ethnic descriptors that pertain to ours (like caucasian/indian/japanese/etc.)

Also, I have read several posts on the 'Writing with Colour' blog but I think I am now more confused. Like, on her character sheet I have described the colour of her skin as 'cinnamon' but using food as a descriptor is frowned upon. So, idk. Any help is very welcome.

@Riorlyne hi!
You don't have to worry about it too much.
Personally, i have seen many characters with dark skin and light hair, so i guess most of your readers might not go for the default image of a redhead. Actually, i believe a person with red hair and dark skin isn't so unnatural, it's actually quite common in our world (a quick google search can prove that, just make sure to pick the right copper tone, otherwise it might look a bit ridiculous)
As for the cinnamon part, it's ok, you can use that, it's actually a pretty nice skin tone, who says you can't use food as a description
I don't think people will go straight for the default image of a redhead, unless they're little kids who never saw a dark skinned person with hair color other than black, but that is improbable. So in other words, you do not need to worry about it. If you are not sure enough people will get the right image, you can try adding a very detailed description of her or small hints about her skin tone from time to time, just to be sure. Personally, i like to add images to my writing, so most people already know how my characters are supposed to look like, but like i said, it is very improbable people will mistake your characters, so there is no need to worry
I'm sure that if the description is well done, people will get the right image
Hope this helped! :3

I don't feel like they will default because I have seen a lot of characters with dark skin and red hair the color combo's are unlimited in fantasy and creativity. So do what you want to. :) In this case the sky isn't the limit your imagination is. If people can do white hair on ebony skin why not red on dark skin?

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ0jRDFmsWVO4gXB2CJ3WPfjOBsC_ckAgVvPApvg3zJC2YZK6vMcQ

http://e-shuushuu.net/image/?image_id=737303

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DarkSkinnedRedhead

I tried to avoid PC garbage as much as possible. Your not going to make everyone happy and people need to stop trying. It adds more stress than it solves. It is a source of anxiety and depression we need not unload on ourselves. This constant question of everything we do and checking ourselves before we wreck ourselves has turned society into a dumb mush pile that really can't think for itself. I'm about to do a social experiment here and I invite you to participate. I'm doing it to prove a point. Anyway, I'll be setting it up in this forum thread so look out for it. It'll be on race.

When doing my own research because I wanted to see how other races describe other races I ran into the Asian almond eyes trope and I have found its a damned if you do and a damned if you don't, their are people who find it offensive as hell and others that don't and find it to be an acceptable descriptive word but also keeping in mind that it isn't a trait all Asians carry. On some of these forums a lot of Asian peoples had no problem with the word and others did so, like I said no matter what you do you can't make everyone happy. It just isn't happening.

Instead of focusing on the PC or how not to offend people I generally go out of my way to just do the research and learn about cultures so I can better represent them in story. Like right now I'm trying to build an Asian inspired culture but no one said it had to be authentic to the T. It's fantasy, maybe I'll decide to intermix fashions from Chinese and Japanese cultures because I like both, or maybe I will add in a twist on another cultures style of jewelry and accent it. The thing is. If you can blend it well and make it believable then everything will be loved just the same. One example is Avatar, it blends a multitude of many cultures in Asia including a few outside of it.

A lot of people nowadays like to scream about cultural appropriation or miss appropriation and I find it stupid and annoying. In ancient times peoples of many cultures would get together to trade wares because it meant sharing ideas, fashion, culture, and brought a multitude of outside wealth to their respective economies. It was about connecting with people and not exploitation of race. (But their will always be exploitation of some kind. Not necessarily race money was what a lot of people wanted to exploit, or technology.)

So how rude would it for me to go around yelling at other races about wearing western cultures clothing? Calling it appropriation? Cause in all reality if they truly cared about culture they would probably get in touch with their roots more and dress traditionally in respect for their own. But who gives a shit about what someone wears anyway? I find it to be a petty argument. (Looking at India on the wedding jewelry here. If you wanted to keep it sacred maybe they should have put that actress in jail for making it a fashion statement. That's my opinion though. If something is sacred and precious those that would do ill will with it even in your own culture should be held accountable for its misuse.)

One other thing I always liked about other cultures is some objects that would seem like everyday objects may actually have hidden meaning and purpose behind them. Like the hair stick which is common in many cultures not just Japanese. Found in Greek and Roman's as well just different styles. Japanese ornament hair stick had served multiple purposes. One being to ward off evil spirits.

So in my mind, in fantasy there really is no default. I just like the story and the characters and that's ultimately what I came for. And as for racial blindness arguments some people make that is racist because to deny genetic differences in people is to deny individuality so embrace our differences its what makes us special.

I'll be naming the social experiment describing race.

I think you're worries are (mostly) unfounded. There are people out there with dark skin and red hair, and even if the reader's default is to assume pale skin + freckles, it doesn't matter that much. Every reader views the world, and thusly your characters, differently. I don't think anyone will imagine exactly what you have in mind. As long as you mention her skin tone close to the beginning of her story, there shouldn't be too much confusion or disappointment.

As for the cinnamon thing…eh. I'm a POC, and I'm not quite comfortable with the food-skin tone comparisons. It almost feels like a cop-out. I mean, you can't imagine how many times I've heard variants of caramel-coffee-mocha-latte-cocoa-cinnamon-chocolate skin colors in fiction. I won't call it lazy, because that's not quite the right word, but the comparison between people's skin color and food always feels a bit off. I'm not "caramel" I'm sun-kissed brown with golden undertones. It's just odd to me that people describe fairer skin tones without food comparisons (except the odd peach skin tone), but for any shade darker than tan, they rely on food. All that being said, I don't think it's a HUGE problem –it's just something to consider.

Sorry that was so long I hope that puts your fears to bed. :)

Another little thing is that you might be better off creating different races for your fantasy setting so that you can use ethnic descriptors for her character and for others.

and
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTruEMMfcT5AadNodysPshpNgEwSO8HpH0cFELq6jUDeSRUx0U9Yw
might work well if u wanted to use them for refernces and photoshop them to use as an image.

just say she has dark skin and red hair lol

As for the cinnamon thing…eh. I'm a POC, and I'm not quite comfortable with the food-skin tone comparisons.

Thank you for your thoughts on this. I feel like if someone used food to describe my skintone they'd have to go with 'raw chicken' or something which I certainly wouldn't be comfortable with. I did see a post where a writer described paler skintones in the same fashion as darker skintones (to raise awareness and as a joke) using comparisons like lumpy mashed potatoes (idk why lumpy, lumpy doesn't add to colour), raw steak, mayonnaise, chicken breast, etc. Personally I find that those foods have connotations that are more off-putting than the caramel-coffee-cinnamon variety, but I wondered if that was just because I'm not the target of the caramel-coffee-cinnamon variety.

I'm sun-kissed brown with golden undertones.

I think that's a great description. No reference to food, or shades of earth. (As an aside, in your experience, would you say that descriptors based off earth/paint pigments are more or less problematic than food ones? Like sienna, terracotta, burnt umber…)

I'm curious, have you seen any good descriptions of lighter - or actually, any shade skintones that don't assume white is default? I can't think of any off the top of my head and I would love to see how other authors have done this well.

I'm curious, have you seen any good descriptions of lighter - or actually, any shade skintones that don't assume white is default? I can't think of any off the top of my head and I would love to see how other authors have done this well.

Same here my describing race thread is up I am very curious to see how people describe color, traits, and features.

No reference to food, or shades of earth. (As an aside, in your experience, would you say that descriptors based off earth/paint pigments are more or less problematic than food ones? Like sienna, terracotta, burnt umber…)

I'd say yes. Pigment descriptors feel much more respectful that food comparisons, at least in my opinion.

I'm curious, have you seen any good descriptions of lighter - or actually, any shade skintones that don't assume white is default? I can't think of any off the top of my head and I would love to see how other authors have done this well.

I honestly haven't run into that yet. I think it's because readers, at least readers in western civilizations, are so accustomed to white being the default that the writer has no choice but to build off of that. Even in books written by POC, typically lighter skin tones are considered the default, and darker skin tones are described based off of that. It's a subtle but sad example of micro-racism and colorism in literature.

Another little thing is that you might be better off creating different races for your fantasy setting so that you can use ethnic descriptors for her character and for others.

@Becfromthedead - I actually have created specific ethnicities, but I will still need to convey to the reader that the Solan people are generally short, curvy and dark-skinned, the Lythian people are generally short, very pale, and red-haired, and my character, who is Solythian, has traits from both of these. Many of my created ethnicities do not match up looks-wise with a particular Earth ethnicity, so I would like to be original and effective with my use of description.

I'd say yes. Pigment descriptors feel much more respectful that food comparisons, at least in my opinion.

All right, I'll keep that in mind as I continue on this descriptive learning journey. :)

@Kohaku and @LadySeshiiria, thank you for your input! I am definitely an over-worried sort of person, so I appreciate your reassurance. :)

@LadySeshiiria, I didn't know there were so many dark-skinned blondes and dark-skinned redheads in fiction that they had become their own tropes! That's cool that they're out there. I do have a dark-skinned blonde in my work as well but I was more worried about my red-haired character since in a previous short story I'd written, a few readers assumed that the main character's family was darker-skinned (I didn't actually describe any of their looks much) and questioned her father's hair being red.

@Kohaku and @LadySeshiiria, thank you for your input! I am definitely an over-worried sort of person, so I appreciate your reassurance. :)

@LadySeshiiria, I didn't know there were so many dark-skinned blondes and dark-skinned redheads in fiction that they had become their own tropes! That's cool that they're out there. I do have a dark-skinned blonde in my work as well but I was more worried about my red-haired character since in a previous short story I'd written, a few readers assumed that the main character's family was darker-skinned (I didn't actually describe any of their looks much) and questioned her father's hair being red.

No problem I actually almost threw you a couple of dark blondes as a reference but didn't want to overdo it. lol Like I said your imagination will be the only thing that limits you. And the more you expose yourself to the genre you want to write in and explore outside of it, non fiction included the more rich things become. I'm glad I just read this book on the Magna Carta called 1215. I was never taught about it in school, it refreshed what I knew about middle ages cultures to a small degree and I learned a lot about general attitudes people had towards royalty, conflicts, and all kinds of stuff, so don't be to quick to discount history! I learned that by reading that book at least. I hope you have fun in your writing journey and don't stress to much. I feel like it ruins the creative process.

My immediate thought was the Gerudo from The Legend of Zelda, like Nabooru and Urbosa.

Personally, I always thought that the kind of descriptor used to describe something should be more based around how the POV character (unless it is strictly third-person omniscient). Like, if the character is a baker of some sort, then perhaps they think of that scared new kid that just walked in as the color of flour, or that boy's hair as a mint green. Or, perhaps someone who works the land, would would describe an elder's hair as the color of marbled stone or her skin as terracotta.