forum Critiquing Your Characters
Started by @Snowmirror
tune

people_alt 17 followers

@Kinarymo

@Snowmirror Hi!
Now, i don’t really know how to respond to the first 2 things you really pointed out, as Avatar makes his debut somewhat late in the story. Initially, he isn’t involved too much, as he is still grieving from the loss of his family, but later, after he discovers the real truth behind what happened in the past, he kinda gets motivated by the fact that all hope isn’t lost and that his main goal is to do everything in his power to prevent from losing the last person left in his family. He is the kind of person looking for the good in everything, believing everyone can be good if they just try.

About the bipolarity thing. In his current situation, Avatar is actually just a half of his original self and because of this, he doesn’t function quite correctly. He doesn’t know he is bipolar, so when he switches to his second personality, he kinda passes out mentally. Avatar can’t remember anything Rin does, yet Rin knows what Avatar does, since Rin is the more aware side of him, knowing he isn’t a full person, just a half of it. Rin acts as Avatar’s offensive mechanism, usually being triggered by Avatar’s frustration at the inability to protect the people he cares for. In a fight Avatar will most likely dodge everything while Rin will go full offensive mode. Because of this, he usually switches personalities when the fight is too much to handle, but things usually get brutal very fast when this happens due to Rin lacking the sense of measure. Once he perceives someone as an enemy, no one can change his mind, which is a big problem if the person in question is someone close to him who had the misfortune of accidentally triggering him. He is 10x more likely to get triggered if his child is involved.
As a whole, Avatar is actually a very strong character, with very good abilities, but because he is split in half he can’t use his powers to their full extent. He also doesn’t take bad news well. When learning of his grandfather’s death and his family’s disappearance, he suffered an insecurity moment, his personalities switching back and forth. One one side he was enraged by the ones who caused everything and on the other side he was devastated by losing those dear to him – or at least this is how i envisioned his bipolarity would work. But you're right, i should probably make another profile for Rin, he's too complex to be just mentioned here and there.

As for the politics, he kinda dislikes everything related to humans. He himself lives by a different set of rules who work perfectly fine (he is part of a higher specie, therefore he has a better understanding of what is right and what is wrong). It’s true, not all humans live by the same political system, but the one imposed by the Empire is the one with the problem. There are other political systems out there with their own problems, but Avatar disagrees with the Empire’s system the most, mainly because he holds a somewhat grudge against humans and because of how many flaws it has (in reality he hates the flaws in the system, not the system itself)
Aweee thank you owo o3o Thanks a lot for the critique!!

@Snowmirror

@HT Novak-Murano I like the adjustments you've added, it makes it feel like she's more of a product of her past rather than simply existing. I like that her prejudice now has an explanation that ties her to her past, though I would still say that a motivation that is plot specific can help her be an active character in her story.

@Snowmirror

@NobleWolf I'm actually really excited to critique a full on animal character!
Johann

  • I'm curious about his mannerisms under politeness. Now, are those actions generally considered polite for all wolves? Like, customary, such as bowing in East Asian cultures? Or is this his own way of showing politeness? I used to write animal characters when I was little, and I always found it helpful to have a page somewhere in a worldbuilding bible dedicated to mannerisms that the entire race has. Like with Erin Hunter's Warriors series, there are things the cats do that are unique to cats, and then the things that are unique to characters. I think this distinction is important but other than that the mannerisms are really good!
  • I like the detail you go into with his motivations, but if his motivations change at any point, that should also be listed and noted! I mean, are wanderlust and adventure his top priorities forever? Normally I critique that adventure as a motivation can be pretty weak because no one out there is willing to sacrifice for that motivation, but for him, you already showed how far he would go for that by leaving his pack.
  • The flaws also make sense, but maybe adding selfish could work? He left his duty and scared the crap out of his pack by doing so because of everything he wanted/was feeling. He doesn't seem the type to want to sacrifice for others, which is interesting because he's part of a pack dynamic. It's also going to make him hard to sympathize with, as selfish characters tend to be, but it can be pulled off.
  • He's the prince and a special blue eyed boy, but is he ever going to be a character that can pull off leadership? One of my earlier critiques goes into more depth about leadership if you want to check that out, because I am firmly wary of 'special character has to lead others'. Because they don't! And that's totally fine! I mentioned Erin Hunter earlier, but that group of authors has another series about dogs called Survivors. One of the great things about it is that, for all the goodness and specialness in their main protagonist, Lucky, he doesn't become leader of the new pack at the end. Instead, it's the character that had been striving for it from the start, and he stands by her side vigilantly, learning from her until he's ready. A gradual build up to Johann becoming leader can be great, but if it's something he is never ready for/desires, than it shouldn't be pushed either.
  • He values the political system he was born into, but how does he feel about those who might disagree? Anyone in his pack frustrated with the lineage? Does he make people frustrated, being a prince and then running away from duty because of adventure and all that? Does he carry guilt?
  • All in all, I quite like him! So this is a smaller critique, I hope you don't mind.

@NobleWolf

  • All in all, I quite like him! So this is a smaller critique, I hope you don't mind.

Thank you, I'm glad you like my boy! And I will definitely work on those mannerisms, as well as his politics. To be quite honest, the mannerisms stumped me for a while, and I listed a few things that could be applied to animals in general and not just him. But I'm glad you brought up Warriors, I'll need to reread the series to get a better feel of how animals react to things. Thanks again for the insight!

Deleted user

I think that's a good name! Would the main character call them Ash?

@Snowmirror

@"shadowknight " Woaaah, okay, kind of not the place for this. I've got 7+ critiques to get through and I'm trying not to get confused by all the names on the thread, so please, don't post here unless you are asking for a full on character critique.

@Snowmirror

@GloriousPirateAlpaca Aww thanks, but no need to fret! I won't get burned out this time!
Robin

  • It’s good to have a couple of mannerisms, but keep in mind that too many or too many repeated can get really annoying for a reader. You don’t have to have motions that are too complicated or might take up to much space, such as scratching her left arm AND tugging her hair behind her ears when she’s uncomfortable.
  • Good motivations! Does she have a fear of failure from this? I can’t imagine a school for assassins to be lax in their teachings.
  • That’s a, uh, interesting fact under flaws. I mean, not really the place for it, because it has nothing to do with her personality, but it’s certainly there. I’m really surprised her lack of a moral compass isn’t mentioned as a flaw. I mean, this girl kills people, right? That’s kind of a big deal.
  • Actually, all in all, she doesn’t read like someone who was raised to be an assassin. If this academy really stripped her of her personality and moral compass, you would think she’d sound at least intimidating. She’s built to be a killing machine and was manipulated from a young age, and yet she sounds like someone who's just emotionally cut off from the world. It's actually quite curious to have a character develop a personality away from how they were raised in a group of assassins. She starts wanting to protect the people around her, but it's such a weird environment for that. Why doesn't her personality capitalize on that fact that she murders people? Why does it feel so brushed off? You make it sound as though the worst thing the academy has done to her is make her like a robot, and that it isn't the biggest problem. People can be shaped into a robot for anything - gardening, cooking, office work. What makes the academy awful is shaping her into a killer.
  • I just don't see how this girl could be an assassin. She's not intimidating physically, she doesn't understand the concept of lies or at least can't detect them, and what hurts her most is that she hides her personality even though she murders people. The whole 'she doesn't understand that what she says can make people sad' is so jarring because why on earth should she care? Why should any of her companions/acquaintances care? Words hurting them emotionally should be nothing compared to what they incite on others. I mean, assassins, yes? Murderers for hire? Robin's personality alone works, somewhat, for a 16-year-old girl. But her profession is so out there that it doesn't tie back into the base of who she is, which is a murderer! Has she not killed anyone yet?
  • Honestly, the biggest problem with her being an assassin is that she does not sound like she was raised that way. See, here's the thing about raising kids. They latch onto everything you teach them, especially with reinforcement. There's a reason why child soldiers are such a tragedy, and that's because they have been raised so thoroughly in thinking that what they're doing is the right thing that getting them out of that mindset is really, really hard. A character raised to be an assassin wouldn't dwell on the things Robin does, and I just find her a bit unrealistic for her circumstances. I'm not sure what, but something has got to give on this and her development to make it sound a little more reasonable. Good luck!

@GloriousPirateAlpaca

@Snowmirror
Thank you so much! It's really great to have someone point these thing so out (because honestly, it's easy to get a little blind regarding your own characters) and you are absolutely right. She…well doesn't really work out as she is right now! I will definitely take this to heart and work more on her! Again, thank you, this was really helpful!

@Snowmirror

@Wry_Wyvern You got it!
Jasper

  • I think just saying he uses slang or a poor man’s colloquialism works fine instead of ‘lowkey manner of the lower class’ if that helps with your wording issue. Also, liking to make fun of people isn’t a mannerism so much as a part of his personality. The more I critique, the more I am of the belief that Notebook should add a like/dislike section to characters but alas, that is neither here nor there. These are all a good group of mannerisms, but be wary of so many. If he constantly makes these actions when these emotions come into play it can be repetitive and dull. Not every emotion needs a mannerism anyway. It should really just be a boiled down set up of what tics make your character unique.
    -Good motivation, but does he have anything plot specific that drives him? What’s the endgame that brings him this freedom and happiness? Writing this out will make it easier to develop antagonists and obstacles. Obviously being motivated by freedom and happiness is good, but this should take the shape of something. I’ve used a Tangled reference before, but Rapunzel is equally motivated by these things. It just so happens to take shape in seeing the floating lights, so it also gives her a plot specific motivation. It just helps make a tighter character.
  • All good flaws, but I see in talents that you put he’s a good leader because he connects to people. See, I really, really like his flaws. Short, sweet, to the point. I would expect someone who is cowardly to be cautious rather than impulsive, but it’s a contradiction that could work. The problem is that this makes him far from being a good leader. Impulsive, insecure, and indecisive are the three shots that take down a leader, and seeing as they are such cores of his flaws, I don’t see how anyone would be willing to follow him, even if he can connect well with others. Now, if you split leader into two halves, the ‘good with people’ half and the ‘tactically smart’ half, you have a different situation. I could see him rallying people because he’s good at connecting with them (though that loyalty might be short lived if he’s cowardly) and really getting a group together, but with those three flaws I can’t see him making the clever plans and decisions a leader needs to make. Now, characters like him exist and are leaders, but they are not leaders alone. There’s this special, niche, and very dynamic trope of the ‘king and tactician’… I actually have no idea what it’s called, but you can find it across a few stories. In Attack on Titan, Jean is shown to be impulsive, insecure and (sometimes) indecisive, but he’s good with people, so others say he would make a good leader. Armin is shown to be tactically smart. He is bad with people, shy, soft spoken, but clever, and merciless in his plans. Together, they can make up the two halves of a leader, and even though the anime/manga never capitalizes on this, they are the only two young characters who are shown capable of becoming leaders in their own rights. Similarly, Fire Emblem: Awakening does this with having Chrom be a brash people person and Robin be his smart, quieter tactician. If Jasper wants to be - needs to be - a leader, then fine. But give him another half that can be decisive, secure and put plans into action so that his group isn’t falling apart. Give him someone to lean on so that one day he is forced to give up his cowardly flaw to save someone who really matters to him. I think that could make him shine.
  • Under occupation, I’d say it’s a gang. Might even be labeled terrorists by the group. They’re unsavory words for a protagonist, but it makes him all the more intriguing if you use them, I think.
  • I think he sounds like a lot of fun, but also a character that is going to rely heavily on the supporting cast to make him stand on his own two feet. Considering all his friends listed, I don’t think you’ll have a problem with that, and he could enter an amazing character arc. Good luck with him!

@Snowmirror

@Kaloobia A reasonable fear to have, but I'm a pale skinned Puerto Rican, so I'm not sure how much I'll have an eye for it. Ultimately, you'll probably need a sensitivity reader or the likes, but I'll keep my eye peeled for anything that sounds off.
Tricky

  • I don't know if living for drama is really a flaw. A lot of people love to watch stuff go down, especially when they're not involved, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If he was an instigator of drama to watch others burn, now that would be a different story, but generally liking drama doesn't count as a flaw for many people. Being a chatterbox does, so that's a totally valid flaw, but is he an oblivious person? In mannerisms, you say he's very touchy, does he know when others get uncomfortable with this or is he unaware? Does he keep talking well past the point people want him to? Is he pushy? Is he nosy in his pursuit of drama? From his personality, he also sounds very cutthroat and not a 'second chance' kind of person. That could be a flaw, being unforgiving, even if it can be a sufficient way of protecting himself from further harm from others. Putting up walls, or barriers as you put it, can also be another flaw. I think you could fluff him up with a few more is all, while still making him a likeable and independent guy.
  • Also, what would genuinely upset him? What would get him fired up and unforgiving? Where exactly do his morals fall? Even in a modern story with rappers and music and life, these are still important questions that ultimately play into characters as a whole. Does he want to be a symbol and an inspiration for people? How does he deal with backlash?
  • From his nature alone I don't see anything that might be offensive or tied with his race. He has enough depth that would definitely fight away any stereotyping, I think. Stereotypes come from somewhere, and I know that Latins have a very celebratory and touchy culture, but as long as it's not put in the negative or the only defining trait for him, I think you'll be good!
  • Maybe fill out the politics tab? He sounds like someone who would have an opinion on it. And maybe that plays into his music? Music is a lot about the self, so I think it would be interesting if he connected that to his stance on religion and the world. But overall, he seems like a fun character!

@Kaloobia

Hey thank you so much! These are all good tips and questions to take into account, I'll be sure to "fluff him up" a bit, as you said :-) I'm glad you think he's fun, and yes he's very much a positive person in the storyline – a role model who's been in the game for a while longer than the main characters – so I'm glad that sort of overrides the general risk of stereotyping. Again, thanks a lot for your time!

@Wry_Wyvern

@Snowmirror thank you so much for that amazing critique!

  • About the cowardly/insecure/indecisive thing, they aren't going to really be dominating traits. I intend for Jasper to have a false bravado that gives out at Critical Moments™, after which he loses a lot of respect from his friends (who he does rely on a lot).
  • It probably would be called a gang, but Jasper would prefer not to use that term as he and his friends are (mostly) decent people who just want to live.
  • I actually didn't know about that trope, but that is basically what I had planned. Speaking of, I was wondering if you could critique his tactician if you have time? I really love your feedback. Elinor Lamarche